Can Increasing Helium Density Affect Payload in Space?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of helium density on payload capacity in a buoyancy context, specifically relating to Archimedes' principle and the forces acting on a spherical body in a fluid. Participants explore the implications of fluid density and buoyant forces in relation to payload calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss Archimedes' principle and its application to buoyancy, questioning the effects of air and helium density on buoyant force and payload. There are attempts to clarify the relationship between displaced fluid and buoyant force, as well as the weight of the displaced fluid.

Discussion Status

The discussion includes various attempts to apply Archimedes' principle, with some participants providing hints and guidance on the necessary calculations. There is an acknowledgment of potential errors in reasoning and calculations, particularly regarding the implications of helium density on payload capacity.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of understanding the density of helium and air, as well as the need to clarify assumptions about the fluid in which the spherical body is situated. There are references to textbook concepts and the requirement to show attempts before receiving further assistance.

MrInventive
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New poster has been reminded to show the Relevant Equations and their work on the solution.
Homework Statement
A spherical balloon has a radius of 7.15 m and is filled with helium. How large a cargo can it lift, assuming that the skin and structure of the balloon have a mass of 930 kg? Neglect the buoyant force on the cargo volume itself.
Relevant Equations
p =m/v density
P = F/A
F = ma
I don't even know where to start...
could you please show me step by step
 
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What does Archimedes' principle state?

It's customary that you show an attempt before any more help can be given.
 
Let me give you some hint. Air will act as a fluid, you don’t have to neglect the effect of air as we normally do in mechanics problem.

Can you solve this question: A spherical body of radius ##7.15~m## and mass ##930 ~kg## is in equilibrium inside the water. What are the forces acting on the sphere?
 
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The Atmosphere and gravity because of the mass of both the fluid and the balloon
 
etotheipi said:
What does Archimedes' principle state?

It's customary that you show an attempt before any more help can be given.

Hello Sorry for the late delay...I lost the website. here's my work
 

Attachments

MrInventive said:
Hello Sorry for the late delay...I lost the website. here's my work
Ok, that's a diagram, but please state Archimedes' principle.
 
If an any object is in a fluid (or partially )... there is a buoyant force that will push it...this force is equal to the amount of that liquid displaced.
 
MrInventive said:
this force is equal to the amount of that liquid displaced.

What do you mean by amount?
 
MrInventive said:
If an any object is in a fluid (or partially )... there is a buoyant force that will push it...this force is equal to the amount of that liquid displaced.
It is equal to the weight of the fluid displaced.
Ok, so what fluid is being displaced by the balloon and what is its weight?
 
  • #10
well I guess its in air so...that's about it. its density is 1.29 kg/m^3

weight is m*g
m = pV...i get lost here
 
  • #11
MrInventive said:
well I guess its in air so...that's about it. its density is 1.29 kg/m^3

weight is m*g
m = pV...i get lost here
You seem to have all the pieces. You know the volume of air displaced, its density, and the equations leading to its weight. Just put it all together.
 
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  • #12
MrInventive said:
Hello Sorry for the late delay...I lost the website. here's my work
Be careful about helium's density and its units. I would advise you to check on your textbook about both density and Archimedes principle concepts.
 
  • #13
haruspex said:
You seem to have all the pieces. You know the volume of air displaced, its density, and the equations leading to its weight. Just put it all together.
ok...i'll try
 
  • #14
Marco Noguez said:
Be careful about helium's density and its units. I would advise you to check on your textbook about both density and Archimedes principle concepts.
Thank you...i'll look at that
 
  • #15
MrInventive said:
ok...i'll try
haruspex said:
You seem to have all the pieces. You know the volume of air displaced, its density, and the equations leading to its weight. Just put it all together.
I hope this is adequate... I have more questions by the way. Is it OK if i post them?
 

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  • #16
hy.
buoyancy force = air dencity*spher volum*gravity const=1.15*1530*9.8=15000 n
weight force= m*9.8 = 930*9.8=9115 n
helume wight - neglebl
max weight can be load= (15000-9115)/9.8=600 kg
 
  • #17
MrInventive said:
I hope this is adequate... I have more questions by the way. Is it OK if i post them?
You have a sign error. It should be obvious that increasing the density of helium will not result in a greater payload.
In addition, you seem to have a numerical error somewhere in the final step, but I cannot tell where it is.
 

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