Can Integration by Parts Reveal Series Properties in This Integral?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential relationship between integration by parts and properties of series as applied to a specific integral involving exponential and trigonometric functions. Participants explore the implications of repeatedly applying integration by parts and whether this could reveal insights into series convergence or coefficients.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that while they found a correct answer to the integral, they are curious if repeated integration by parts could lead to insights about series properties and convergence.
  • Another participant introduces a linear algebra perspective, defining functions and exploring their linear independence, suggesting a matrix representation of the integration operator and its implications for repeated integration.
  • A later reply indicates a different interpretation of the original question, providing a specific expression derived from integrating by parts multiple times, which appears to lead to a similar conclusion as the previous participant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of the original question and the implications of integration by parts. There is no consensus on whether the approach leads to a definitive understanding of series properties.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes complex mathematical expressions and assumptions about the behavior of integrals under repeated application of integration by parts, which may depend on specific conditions not fully explored in the posts.

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This isn't really a homework question, more just something I noticed while evaluating an integral and was curious about:

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At this stage, I was able to simplify the expression before solving for the integral algebraically (since the second iteration yielded the original integral the right side) and in doing so I came to the correct answer. I noticed however that I could have kept applying integration by parts over and over again.

Had I done this, would it be possible to evaluate the integral by applying some property of series to the coefficient​s to see if they converge at some value? I know that the best way to solve the integral is the method I ended up using, but I was just curious if there were some relationship between integrals, coefficients, and series. I only have a conceptual understanding of series at this point so pardon me if my question isn't a valid one.

Thank you.
 
Last edited:
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I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for, but we can get some insight into this problem using linear algebra.

Throughout, I will ignore the "##+C##" associated with the indefinite integral, or equivalently, choose ##C = 0##.

If we let ##f(\theta) = e^{2\theta}\sin(3\theta)## and ##g(\theta) = e^{2\theta}\cos(3\theta)##, then we can consider ##f## and ##g## as elements of the vector space of all continuous functions. Clearly ##f## and ##g## are linearly independent: one is not a scalar multiple of the other. So ##f## and ##g## span a subspace of dimension 2. Note that integration is a linear operator on this vector space. If we denote this operator by ##L##, your calculations show that
$$L(f) = -\frac{1}{3} g + \frac{2}{3}L(g)$$
$$L(g) = \frac{1}{3}f - \frac{2}{3}L(f)$$
We may express ##L## as a matrix ##M## with respect to the basis ##\{f,g\}## as follows:
$$M\begin{pmatrix}1 \\ -2/3 \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix}0 \\ -1/3 \end{pmatrix}$$
$$M\begin{pmatrix}2/3 \\ 1 \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix}1/3 \\ 0 \end{pmatrix}$$
Stacking these together into one equation, we get
$$M\begin{pmatrix}1 & 2/3 \\ -2/3 & 1 \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix}0 & 1/3 \\ -1/3 & 0\end{pmatrix}$$
Solving for ##M## gives us
$$M = \begin{pmatrix}2/13 & 3/13 \\ -3/13 & 2/13 \end{pmatrix} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{13}} \begin{pmatrix}2/\sqrt{13} & 3/\sqrt{13} \\ -3/\sqrt{13} & 2/\sqrt{13} \end{pmatrix} $$
Since ##(2/\sqrt{13})^2 + (3/\sqrt{13})^2 = 1##, we see that ##M## is of the form
$$\frac{1}{\sqrt{13}}\begin{pmatrix}\cos(x) & \sin(x) \\ -\sin(x) & \cos(x) \end{pmatrix}$$
which is a rotation by the angle ##x = \cos^{-1}(2/\sqrt{13})## and a scaling by ##1/\sqrt{13}##.

This makes it quite easy to see what the answer will be if you apply the operator (i.e. integrate) repeatedly, say ##n## times. Since
$$M^n = \left(\frac{1}{\sqrt{13}}\right)^n \begin{pmatrix}\cos(nx) & \sin(nx) \\ -\sin(nx) & \cos(nx) \end{pmatrix}$$
the result of integrating your ##f## function ##n## times will be
$$\begin{align}
L^n(f) &=
M^n\begin{pmatrix}1 \\ 0\end{pmatrix} \\
&= \left(\frac{1}{\sqrt{13}}\right)^n \begin{pmatrix}\cos(nx) \\ -\sin(nx)\end{pmatrix} \\
&= \left(\frac{1}{\sqrt{13}}\right)^n (f(\theta) \cos(nx) -g(\theta)\sin(nx))\end{align}$$
 
Last edited:
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Thank you so much, I wasn't expecting such a detailed or helpful response.
 
I think
jbunniii interpreted the question a little differently than I did.

If we integrate by parts 2n times we will see

$$\int \! e^{2\theta}\sin(3\theta) \, \mathrm{d}\theta=
\tfrac{1}{13}e^{2\theta}[2\sin(3\theta)-3\cos(3\theta)]+ \\
\left(-\tfrac{4}{9}\right)^n \left\{ -\tfrac{1}{13}e^{2\theta}[2\sin(3\theta)
-3\cos(3\theta)]+\int \! e^{2\theta}\sin(3\theta) \, \mathrm{d}\theta \right\}$$

from which we make the same conclusion as before.
 

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