Can Numerical Simulations Accurately Predict Orbital Precession?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the question of whether a literal two-body system, governed by Newton's Law of gravitation, would exhibit orbital precession or maintain a consistent elliptical orbit. Participants explore the implications of numerical simulations in this context, particularly regarding stability and potential errors in the simulations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that in a two-body system with point masses, there would be no orbital precession, suggesting that the orbits would map out the same ellipse each time.
  • Others express that numerical simulations can introduce instability and accumulate errors over time, which may lead to apparent precession in the results.
  • One participant notes that perturbations deviating from a 1/r potential could lead to precession, indicating that the nature of the potential is crucial in determining orbital behavior.
  • A participant references the Hamiltonian dynamics of the system, mentioning the Runge-Lenz vector as a reason for the absence of precession in a perfect two-body system.
  • Another participant expresses surprise at the simulation results showing precession, suggesting that the errors introduced tend to consistently affect the simulation in a particular direction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on whether orbital precession occurs in a two-body system under Newtonian mechanics, with some asserting it does not occur while others highlight the role of numerical simulation errors and potential perturbations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential instability in numerical simulations, the need to verify energy conservation, and the influence of perturbations on the system's behavior. The discussion does not resolve the implications of these factors on the predictions of orbital precession.

oq123
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If we had a literal two body system (point masses M and m), with one orbiting the other according to Newton's Law of gravitation, would there be orbital precession? Or would they map out the same ellipse each time?
 
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oq123 said:
If we had a literal two body system (point masses M and m), with one orbiting the other according to Newton's Law of gravitation, would there be orbital precession?
No
 
Perfect A.T. Thank you! That is what I thought, but running a simulation I wrote, there appeared to be precession. I thought that it was an artifact, but wanted to be sure.
 
numerical simulations can be unstable - you accumulate errors over time. You should check that the total energy of the system remains constant in your simulations.

Note that any kind of perturbations which deviate from a 1/r potential will lead to precession.
 
dipole said:
numerical simulations can be unstable - you accumulate errors over time. You should check that the total energy of the system remains constant in your simulations.

Note that any kind of perturbations which deviate from a 1/r potential will lead to precession.

I was somewhat surprised that the simulation would lead to precession, though. I would have expected the orbit to wobble, but it the type of error introduced in these simulations tend to always go the same way...
 

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