Can Quartz Crystals Really Store Unlimited Data for an Unlimited Time?

[Kalrag]

I have heard that Quartz crystals are able to store data and information in vast amounts. Is this possible and if so does it work?

 

[Vanadium 50]

It would be helpful if you told us where you heard that. The closest thing I have seen is http://hubpages.com/hub/The_Philips-Swarovski_crystal_USB_flash_drive" .

 

[trini]

lol v50

 

[Kalrag]

I believe I heard it off the history channel breifly. (CAN ANYBODY BE SERIOUS AROUND HERE ??)

 

[Vanadium 50]

The point in asking you where you heard it is so that we can check it out ourselves. "I heard it on the history channel" is not much better than "I heard to somewhere".

 

[JaredJames]

Sounds like something off Doctor Who.

 

[Kalrag]

Using Quartz to Store Data

I have heard recently off the history channel that Quartz is able to store vast amounts of data within itself. Is this possible? If so how does it work?

Here is a video of the show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re1UdLjCIbA&feature=related
At about 12:00 Minutes into the video it mentions how quartz can store millions of gigabytes of data.

 

[JaredJames]

Isn't this an identical thread to one that was here previously?

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=459868

And, it was by you.

Was it really necessary to create a duplicate post?

Regardless, as per the other thread can you supply any appropriate references to support this?

 

[Kalrag]

I was just starting fresh and adding more details. Please just answer my question.

 

[JaredJames]

I was just starting fresh and adding more details. Please just answer my question.

There was no need to create a duplicate thread. We asked in the previous one for you to supply references (appropriate to forum rules) relating to what you are asking.

Regardless of which thread you use, this request doesn't change.

 

[turbo]

I was just starting fresh and adding more details. Please just answer my question.

You do realize that you linked to a woo-woo video about crop circles, aliens, crystal skulls, etc, don't you? That's not a place to find any accurate information on data-storage.

 

[berkeman]

I was just starting fresh and adding more details. Please just answer my question.

Multiple posting is against the PF rules. I've merged your two threads.

And it looks like you need to address what turbo-1 found about the link you posted...

 

[Kalrag]

Well, in the video it was talking about how the crystal skull could be carrying information. They stated that Quartz is able to carry huge amounts of data. So I just asked how that works and any other information.

Hope that clears it up.

 

[Kalrag]

Its just a couisidence that it ended up in that video.

 

[ZapperZ]

At some point, you need to re-read the PF Rules that you had agreed to. Please pay attention to what we consider to be valid sources. If we open up this forum to discuss every single dubious idea from all source, we would never be able to discuss legitimate issues in physics.

Since I cannot figure out what was said in the original source of your information (I will not waste my time in addressing something out of a crackpot youtube video), then I can only hazard a guess to what could be said (please keep in mind from now on that we REQUIRE proper, full citation of the source to figure out what you heard and if you've heard it correctly). What I think is involved here is the "storage" of some kind of vibrations in such quartz crystal.

However, this is only a pie-in-the-sky idea at the moment, because it is presenting a rather naive idea of what can be done. One only needs to see the whole issue involved in information storage when we tried it with BEC gas. You need to not only be able to store the energy in such vibrations, but you need to be able to store the phase information, so that when we "replay" the signal, it comes out with the correct frequency and the correct phase! This is not trivial, and has not been shown clearly in any kind of "crystal".

So your answer right now is a "NO".

Zz.

 

[JaredJames]

I watched the original tv show that clip is from and it was anything but scientific.

A lot of people making wild claims with little to no evidence to back it up.

Now can you provide any mainstream published papers or are we discussing an extremely speculative story?

 

[xxChrisxx]

So this is the same as all of OPs other "is it possible" threads then.

To answer the question. It's probably possible to store data on crystals.

EDIT:
To be fair to Kalrag, at least this thread had a legitimate question attached to it. Even though the cause of said question was a crackpot TV show.

 

[JaredJames]

Well PF needs to draw a line somewhere. I can come up with a whole host of "is it possible" questions based on youtube videos.

I don't know about the possibility of it, I have seen nothing to indicate it is though.

 

[Kalrag]

Alright I believe what the process is called is holographic memory storage. I found an article about it on how-stuff-works.com and it seemed to help alot.

 

[JaredJames]

Right, now we're getting somewhere.

This is the sort of thing you're looking at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_data_storage

 

[turbo]

Well, in the video it was talking about how the crystal skull could be carrying information. They stated that Quartz is able to carry huge amounts of data. So I just asked how that works and any other information.

Hope that clears it up.

Crystal skulls were promoted as pre-Columbian artifacts, but have been pretty soundly proven to have been frauds, made of quartz from Madagascar or Brazil, and likely carved in Idar-Oberstein - a town of skilled craftsmen working in stone. Even by the late 1800s, these skulls were being tagged as fakes, so a modern-day video touting them as real is pretty ridiculous.

 

[JaredJames]

Crystal skulls were promoted as pre-Columbian artifacts, but have been pretty soundly proven to have been frauds, made of quartz from Madagascar or Brazil, and likely carved in Idar-Oberstein - a town of skilled craftsmen working in stone. Even by the late 1800s, these skulls were being tagged as fakes, so a modern-day video touting them as real is pretty ridiculous.

True, but the question regarding data storage in a crystal is valid (now we have an understanding on it).

However, I'm not sure if it applies to crystals:

Holographic data storage captures information using an non optical interference pattern within a thick, photosensitive optical material.

(Wiki on Holographic Data Storage)

So you need a material that is photosensitive and I don't believe crystal is, so it won't do the job.

So no, you can't store data in crystals.

 

[Borek]

Not sure about crystals, but I am sure it is possible to store data in glass

http://www.3bscientific.com/novelties/lasered-glass-blocks,pg_5_1018_680_0.html

The way object inside looks IS an information.

 

[turbo]

Natural crystals such as quartz are probably not going to be very useful for any holographic storage. I imagine that any such usable storage material will have to be doped with photosensitive additives.

 

[Dr Lots-o'watts]

I have heard recently off the history channel that Quartz is able to store vast amounts of data within itself. Is this possible? If so how does it work?

Here is a video of the show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re1UdLjCIbA&feature=related
At about 12:00 Minutes into the video it mentions how quartz can store millions of gigabytes of data.

A quick search with the keywords from that video leads to some guy who both worked on quartz for IBM, and also sold quartz as spiritual items. One of those two jobs is scientific, the other is not. That may be where the confusion comes from.

 

[Dr Lots-o'watts]

Not sure about crystals, but I am sure it is possible to store data in glass

http://www.3bscientific.com/novelties/lasered-glass-blocks,pg_5_1018_680_0.html

The way object inside looks IS an information.

Quartz can be laser-cut, but I'm not sure if the details can be as fine as in glass or if there are any technical advantages.

 

[lxman]

I found this article rather interesting. Didn't understand it all, but I thought it might be applicable here.

http://www.diamond.ac.uk/Home/Beamlines/I19/casestudies/Optical-data-storage.html"

 

[siiix]

how about this :
http://www.itpro.co.uk/616444/miniscule-crystals-could-be-used-to-store-data

but its not the crystals most of us wold like to see - the pretty ones from movies , its a gel turning partially to crystals under focused light.. i think it would look more like a gel filled cylinder if they ever figure this out

 

[joe_gunn]

May I suggest that before we attempt to store & retrieve data, possibly we should try to store energy in a crystal. Technically that has already been accomplished in devices such as Ruby lasers. Ruby is a crystal, and if the two end-mirrors were not polished to be semi-permeable (so as to let out the light of given intensity), but rather fully reflective towards the inside of the crystal, it may be possible to store and carry that energy for some time. Of course, it would eventually decay as heat, but storing energy in a crystal, in my mind, would be the first step towards data storage in crystals. I completely agree with previous post that polarization and phase are essential for data fidelity.

 

[cosmik debris]

Illiac IV had thin film memory which was etched on glass and read out by laser.

 

[siiix]

Illiac IV had thin film memory which was etched on glass and read out by laser.

but that's only 1 time writable , although even 1 time writable media crystals would be way cooler then todays plastics disks

 

[JaredJames]

but that's only 1 time writable , although even 1 time writable media crystals would be way cooler then todays plastics disks

Even thought it works in exactly the same way and would need to be the same shape because we don't have a cheap and easy way of reading 3D structures in that way.

So you basically end up with a CD made of crystal. How useful.

 

[vadadagon]

FWIW the short answer is yes. Not in massive amount (not yet anyway) and it was accomplished in the 1940s.

The next significant advance in computer memory was with acoustic delay line memory developed by J. Presper Eckert in the early 1940s. Through the construction of a glass tube filled with mercury and plugged at each end with a quartz crystal, delay lines could store bits of information within the quartz and transfer it through sound waves propagating through mercury. Delay line memory would be limited to a capacity of up to a few hundred thousand bits to remain efficient.


reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_memory
More reference - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Presper_Eckert
More reference - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay_line_memory

But don't rely solely on Wikipedia

Other references -
http://history-computer.com/People/EckertBio.html
http://wvegter.hivemind.net/abacus/CyberHeroes/Eckert.htm
http://www.decodesystems.com/delay-line-memory.html
http://www.computer.org/portal/web/awards/entrepreneuereckert
http://www.google.com/search?q=Dela...v&sa=X&ei=hyWuTfO-JardiALo39TODA&ved=0CEEQsAQ


Hope this answers your question. Like I said short answer is Yes (read more for details).

 

[StringJunky]

Fast forward a year or so:

A woman holds up Japanese electronics giant Hitachi's new quartz glass plate technology, which can be used to store data indefinitely, in Tokyo on September 24. The company on Monday unveiled a method of storing digital information on slivers of quartz glass that can endure extreme temperatures and hostile conditions without degrading, almost forever.

To read more: http://phys.org/news/2012-09-japan-hitachi.html#jCp

 

[MarieDacat]

Yes, it is possible.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-09/25/hitachi-quartz-data-storage

 

[CHale]

You do realize that you linked to a woo-woo video about crop circles, aliens, crystal skulls, etc, don't you? That's not a place to find any accurate information on data-storage.

So you need a material that is photosensitive and I don't believe crystal is, so it won't do the job. So no, you can't store data in crystals.

A quick search with the keywords from that video leads to some guy who both worked on quartz for IBM, and also sold quartz as spiritual items. One of those two jobs is scientific, the other is not. That may be where the confusion comes from.

Reading this thread was great because I learned about two important things. Firstly, that quartz can indeed store data (360 TB... per disk!), as was asserted by the "woo-woo video" and "some guy" who "sold quartz as spiritual items."

The second thing I learned about was the dualistic primitivity and curiosity of human nature - quick to criticize new ideas not contained within the limits of it's own finite reality box, while at the same time challenging the alternatives, on some levels in hopes that they may be wrong.


"5D ‘Superman memory’ crystal could lead to unlimited lifetime data storage

Using nanostructured glass, scientists at the University of Southampton have, for the first time, experimentally demonstrated the recording and retrieval processes of five dimensional digital data by femtosecond laser writing. The storage allows unprecedented parameters including 360 TB/disc data capacity, thermal stability up to 1000°C and practically unlimited lifetime."
[/PLAIN]
http://www.southampton.ac.uk/mediacentre/news/2013/jul/13_131.shtml[/URL]