Can scientific papers be made at home and only by searching on the internet?

[manareus]

Hello,

I'm the head of youth scientific club at my High School. Because there's a pandemic going on, schools are closed and god knows when they reopen. Earlier before, I have a couple of programs that are being planned to produce scientific papers but they are all postponed.

Now, all my members are inactive and can't produce scientific papers. Whilst my elder member insists on me that my club must produce scientific papers.

If you can answer the question, I will be very thankful.

 

[berkeman]

It's great and challenging for you to keep mentoring and teaching your high school students during these very challenging times. Hang in there!

It's unusual for high school students to publish scientific papers, so maybe you can say more about what you are asking about. What journals have your students published in previously? Can you provide some links to those papers so we can get calibrated about the subjects and the level of math that is being used in those papers? Thanks.

Also, if you haven't already done it, be sure to read through the PF Insights articles about publishing scientific papers:

https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/?s=publish

Those articles should help you out a lot.

I'll also page @Dr. Courtney since he is one of the Insights authors who has helped undergraduate students in publishing -- I'm not sure that extends to high school students, though.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Mentoring high school students to the point of published papers is a tall order. Sure, it can be done, but in my experience, mentors who accomplish it have a pretty substantial research and publication themselves.

Publishing scientific work in peer-reviewed journals is an unlikely outcome simply from "searching the internet." The more likely path forward for fruitful research is using existing data that is compiled out there somewhere and using it to test a new hypothesis or analyzing it with a new method. There is lots and lots and lots of data out there. Some data requires permissions to access, and other data is available for anyone to download.

Most mentors in your position see the greatest success in student research by connecting students with experts in the fields they want to pursue projects in. But getting these experts on board to help students can be a challenge for various reasons.

Read these to articles and send me a PM if I may be of further assistance:

https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/secrets-successful-science-projects/

https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/niches-publishable-undergraduate-research/

It's not so much that high school students don't have the ability to conduct publishable research, it's that few are both willing to work hard enough to accomplish a project worth publishing AND have access to expert guidance to make their work productive.

 

[manareus]

Thank you all for your response and sorry for my a bit late response. Yes, it's my mistake not to put up more details on what I meant about publishing scientific papers and what kind of subjects does my members previously has studied.

Our goal is not to publish scientific papers publicly, but only publish it in our high school library and official site. Biology and Chemistry are two of the most popular subjects that all of my members at least a fan of. We rarely do physic-based or math-based research just because there aren't many students who interested in it.

I mentioned that I have programs that meant to be started at the beginning of the pandemic, but postponed. One of those programs involves three members to do research in the field (mentored by an expert from Department of Environmental Education) about irrigation system in our high school which, to be honest, was pretty bad. The data gathered from the research then is used to make scientific paper titled (for example) "Irrigation System In Our High School".

This scientific paper then sent into our high school officials wherein the scientific paper containing (for example) a solution on how to fix our high school irrigation system and what's the best irrigation system design for our high school. I hope, that, because the Department of Environmental Education is involved in this research, our high school viewed our scientific paper seriously.

Now, because there's a pandemic, it's impossible to execute this program because school are closed. Meanwhile, my elder member insists on me to publish scientific papers.

Topics, that I could think of, probably in the subject of sociology? Maybe the scientific paper will be titled "Students activities at home during large scale social restriction." and mentored by our sociology teacher via teleconference.

But anyway, thank you for the links!

 

[ZapperZ]

You need to learn proper terminology so that you do not confuse people, and people do not confuse you.

what you are doing is not publishing scientific papers.

Zz.

 

[manareus]

You need to learn proper terminology so that you do not confuse people, and people do not confuse you.

what you are doing is not publishing scientific papers.

Zz.

My apologies,

I'm just following what my elder member said. Well, to be honest, he said that my club needs to make scientific papers so that the public can read and make use of it.

What he meant by public, I guess when visitors came to my high school site they can see and read all of scientific papers produced by my club under the name of my high school.

If you kindly know what the correct terminology is I would be thankful.

 

[ZapperZ]

My apologies,

I'm just following what my elder member said. Well, to be honest, he said that my club needs to make scientific papers so that the public can read and make use of it.

What he meant by public, I guess when visitors came to my high school site they can see and read all of scientific papers produced by my club under the name of my high school.

If you kindly know what the correct terminology is I would be thankful.

Term papers, class project reports, etc.

Tell your "elders" that scientific papers are sent to scientific journals. They are then evaluated by "referees" who are experts in the particular area of the topic of the paper. Only if they pass such scrutiny and evaluations will they be published in those journals.

Those are what we call "scientific papers".

Zz.

 

[manareus]

Term papers, class project reports, etc.

Tell your "elders" that scientific papers are sent to scientific journals. They are then evaluated by "referees" who are experts in the particular area of the topic of the paper. Only if they pass such scrutiny and evaluations will they be published in those journals.

Those are what we call "scientific papers".

Zz.

I kind of get your point.

But as far as I know that Indonesian doesn't use such terms. Well at least for high schoolers, because we only get few lessons about type of research papers. The most common term used in my high school is "Karya Tulis Ilmiah" or KTI in short.

And it's translated to "Scientific Paper" via Google. But okay, not that I didn't respect you for your advice, but using the terms you suggest makes me feel uncomfortable because of my high school culture. In the future, I will try to learn the correct terminology further.

Any way, what you just said is literally one of the main goal of making these papers besides publishing it to my high school library and official site.

There are annual competitions held by several public or private universities for scientific papers. The scientific papers then of course be evaluated by experts.

Scientific papers that are considered "good" by the experts win the competition and some money. Though, I don't know about the journals.

My high school demanded by club to win those competitions. Not only to make my high school be known to the public but to get extremely precious experience of making credible scientific papers.

Because scientific papers that won those competitions are surely, like you said, can actually be published in scientific journals.

 

[ZapperZ]

I kind of get your point.

But as far as I know that Indonesian doesn't use such terms. Well at least for high schoolers, because we only get few lessons about type of research papers. The most common term used in my high school is "Karya Tulis Ilmiah" or KTI in short.

You may call it whatever you like within the confined of your context. However, if you wish to communicate with the outside world, then the usage of such terminology creates a misunderstanding.

After all, you communicate with us using "standard english" rather than use your native Indonesian/Malaysian language. It means that we all have to agree upon some common meaning to words and phrases. You may not agree with how "scientific paper" is being defined, but that is what it means when you communicate with scientists.

Because scientific papers that won those competitions are surely, like you said, can actually be published in scientific journals.

And how many of these winners were published in international scientific journals that are commonly read by scientists within those fields? "Can" and "Have" are two entirely different things.

Zz.

 

[russ_watters]

If I may try to put a finer point on this:

Because scientific papers that won those competitions are surely, like you said, can actually be published in scientific journals.

I think the issue here is more than just terminology. I think you have a belief that high school students are capable of publishing real, professional quality scientific papers in real/important scientific journals. This just isn't true. It is very rare that a high school student could get a paper published in a real journal at all, and even then only when teamed-up with a professional scientist.

The competitions you describe might also be similar to what in the US we call a "Science Fair". If these projects get "published", they are almost always "published" as news stories, not scientific journal publications. But even these take much more work than just internet research. They are typically physical/experimental projects, not "term papers". An example of a term paper would be what you produce if given the assignment: "Describe the history of the development of celestial mechanics from Ptolemy to Einstein." It's as much of a history report as a scientific one.

 

[manareus]

You may call it whatever you like within the confined of your context. However, if you wish to communicate with the outside world, then the usage of such terminology creates a misunderstanding.

After all, you communicate with us using "standard english" rather than use your native Indonesian/Malaysian language. It means that we all have to agree upon some common meaning to words and phrases. You may not agree with how "scientific paper" is being defined, but that is what it means when you communicate with scientists.
And how many of these winners were published in international scientific journals that are commonly read by scientists within those fields? "Can" and "Have" are two entirely different things.

Zz.

So it seems, thank you for your advice.

I'm afraid I can't answer that question. It's my assumption that the winners of these competitions can publish their scientific journals, but as far as I'm concerned that I don't see any scientific papers published in international scientific journals.

Again, we are high schoolers, we don't have a degree. You can say that what are we doing here is just learning and gaining experience.

 

[berkeman]

Again, we are high schoolers, we don't have a degree. You can say that what are we doing here is just learning and gaining experience.

Very valuable experience! How do you think many famous scientists started out? By working their way up through the process from simpler experiments and science fair projects to excelling in high school and university and excelling in graduate school and beyond. There are venues for "publishing" and demonstrating good projects at all of those different levels along the way. Keep encouraging such great achievements at each level, and you will be facilitating many accomplished young scientists.

 

[manareus]

If I may try to put a finer point on this:

I think the issue here is more than just terminology. I think you have a belief that high school students are capable of publishing real, professional quality scientific papers in real/important scientific journals. This just isn't true. It is very rare that a high school student could get a paper published in a real journal at all, and even then only when teamed-up with a professional scientist.

The competitions you describe might also be similar to what in the US we call a "Science Fair". If these projects get "published", they are almost always "published" as news stories, not scientific journal publications. But even these take much more work than just internet research. They are typically physical/experimental projects, not "term papers". An example of a term paper would be what you produce if given the assignment: "Describe the history of the development of celestial mechanics from Ptolemy to Einstein." It's as much of a history report as a scientific one.

Sorry, we are just high school students, I'm well aware that we can't produce real, professional-quality scientific papers in scientific journals as you said.

But like ordinary students, we like to learn and practice making those scientific papers. We can't publish it to scientific journals but we can always publish it to our high school library and official site. Thanks!

I understand, thank you. Of course, those projects needed more than internet research, I've experienced one of the competitions myself and it's really not an easy task, have to go to high school lab even on weekends.

However, I'm interested in term papers here, mentioned by you and ZapperZ. Can they be made by only searching on the Internet?

 

[manareus]

Very valuable experience! How do you think many famous scientists started out? By working their way up through the process from simpler experiments and science fair projects to excelling in high school and university and excelling in graduate school and beyond. There are venues for "publishing" and demonstrating good projects at all of those different levels along the way. Keep encouraging such great achievements at each level, and you will be facilitating many accomplished young scientists.

Thank you for your kind support! I have 4-5 months left of being the head of my club. Really hoping for this pandemic to end so my high school can open again to do some science activities.