Can Set Union Have an Additive Inverse Like Real Numbers?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of set union and its properties, particularly in relation to the existence of additive inverses in real numbers. Participants explore whether there can be a set that acts as an additive inverse under the operation of union, and they analyze the implications of non-commutativity in subtraction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests demonstrating that there is no axiom for set union corresponding to the existence of additive inverses by finding a set X such that $A \cup X = \emptyset$.
  • Another participant interprets the first question as asking for a counterexample to the property that for every set A, there exists an X such that $A \cup X = \emptyset$.
  • A participant proposes that if A is non-empty, then $A \cup X$ cannot be empty, leading to the conclusion that A must be empty for the union to equal the empty set.
  • There is a consensus that if $A = \emptyset$, then X must also be empty for the union to hold true.
  • Participants discuss the notation (*) used to refer to the statement about the existence of X in mathematical texts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the implications of the union operation with respect to empty sets, but there is some confusion regarding the interpretation of the initial question and the notation used. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications of these properties.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the phrasing of the questions and the implications of the properties being discussed, particularly in relation to the definitions and axioms of set theory.

paulmdrdo1
Messages
382
Reaction score
0
1.show that there is no axiom for set union that correspond to "Existence of additive inverses" for real numbers, by demonstrating that in general it is impossible to find a set X such that $A\cup X=\emptyset$. what is the only set $\emptyset$ which possesses an inverse in this sense?

2. show that the operation of subtraction is not commutative,that is, it is possible to find real numbers a and b such that $b-a\not = a-b$. what can be said about a and b if $b-a=a-b?$

what to do? i don't understand what question 1 is asking.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
paulmdrdo said:
what to do? i don't understand what question 1 is asking.
Question 1 asks you to find a set $A$ such that $A\cup X\ne\emptyset$ for all sets $X$. Such $A$ is a counterexample to the property

For every $A$ there exists an $X$ such that $A\cup X=\emptyset$ (*)

which is an analog of the "Existence of additive inverses" for real numbers. It also asks to find a unique set $A$ for which (*) is true.
 
If A is non-empty (for concreteness, let A = {a}), then A U X is also non-empty, because no matter what X is, A U X contains at least the element a.

Thus if A U X = Ø (for some X) it must be the case that A = Ø. What must X be, here?
 
X must also be empty. am i right? and evegenymakarov what does this symbol mean (*)?
 
paulmdrdo said:
X must also be empty. am i right?
Yes.

paulmdrdo said:
evegenymakarov what does this symbol mean (*)?
I denoted the statement "For every $A$ there exists an $X$ such that $A\cup X=\emptyset$" by (*) in order to refer to it later. This is often done in math texts. The label like (*) or (1) is usually located near the right page margin.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
3K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
1K