Can Space Travel Faster Than the Speed of Light?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of whether space can travel faster than the speed of light (c), particularly in the context of cosmic expansion and the Inflationary Epoch. Participants explore various interpretations of relativity and the implications of space's expansion on the speed of light.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that Alex Filipenko's statement about space traveling faster than c may refer to cosmic expansion, where different parts of the universe can move away from each other at speeds greater than c.
  • Others argue that special relativity applies only in local frames and does not impose constraints on global phenomena like cosmic expansion.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the notion of space traveling faster than c, asserting that space itself does not move but exists as a medium for matter and photons.
  • Another participant posits that while nothing can travel faster than c, the expansion of space can create scenarios where distant parts of the universe recede from each other at effective speeds greater than c.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that light is not traveling but is instead transported by space, implying that the maximum speed of space could be c.
  • Some participants discuss the idea that relative speeds between two points could approach 2c, depending on their motion relative to each other, while noting that no observer can measure such speeds directly.
  • Concerns are raised about the meaningfulness of discussing a vacuum moving at any speed, as it is argued that all inertial reference frames are equivalent.
  • One participant mentions the concept of aether in relation to the discussion, indicating a historical perspective on the nature of space.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the topic, with no clear consensus reached. Some agree on aspects of cosmic expansion, while others challenge the interpretation of space's movement and the implications of relativity.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in understanding arise from the complexity of relativity and the definitions of space and motion. Participants highlight the need for clarity on the assumptions underlying their claims.

Chaos' lil bro Order
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Greetings,

I was watching a video lecture by Alex Filipenko of Berkeley's Astronomy Dept. and I was shocked to hear him say that space can travel faster than C, because Relativity doesn't put contraints on the speed of space itself. Does anyone have any insight on this for me please? I'm gathering that he may have been referring to the Inflationary Epoch and space's expansion at that time, but it wasn't clear from the lecture.

Thanks.
 
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No - I think he was referring to cosmic expansion - different parts of the universe may be moving at greater than c relative to each other -
 
Also special relativity (and hence the speed limit of c) holds only in local frames, not global ones.
 
More replies please, these are good so far but not conclusive.

Also, is there any theory on how fast space expanded during Inflation?
 
Chaos' lil bro Order said:
I was watching a video lecture by Alex Filipenko of Berkeley's Astronomy Dept. and I was shocked to hear him say that space can travel faster than C, because Relativity doesn't put contraints on the speed of space itself. Does anyone have any insight on this for me please? I'm gathering that he may have been referring to the Inflationary Epoch and space's expansion at that time, but it wasn't clear from the lecture.
As far as I know, space does not travel - it simply exists - and matter and photons travel in the space. If one is referring to the movement of the 'boundary' or 'edge' of the universe or space, I am afraid we do not know.

I can't see that saying space can travel faster than c makes any sense.

One could also say space is at absolute zero, because it has not temperature! The matter and photons in space have temperature.:rolleyes:
 
It is entirely possible that parts of our universe are forever cut off from us because they are moving away faster than c. How are they doing this, when we know nothing can travel faster than c? Because nothing *is* traveling faster than c - the space between us and those other parts of the universe is expanding faster than c. Relativity does not preclude this.
 
My idea, to be demonstrated, is that light is not traveling but it is just transported by the space, it rides the space, so the space max speed is C.
 
I would think that relative to one another, two points' speed could approach 2C. Whether these two points are points in space or two objects in space, if each is approaching C in opposite directions relatively their speed would be the sum of their speeds.

Also, in assuming space can even 'travel', space has no mass, so why not?
 
scavokrj said:
I would think that relative to one another, two points' speed could approach 2C. Whether these two points are points in space or two objects in space, if each is approaching C in opposite directions relatively their speed would be the sum of their speeds.

Also, in assuming space can even 'travel', space has no mass, so why not?

It can't exist an observer that measures 2C, if he is in point A he see point B moving away at C, if he is in point B the same with A. If he is in point C he see both A and B moving at C but can't measure the relative speed of A with B.
 
  • #10
one other thing, it is meaningless to conceive of a vacuum moving at any speed at all. we cannot tell the difference between a "moving vacuum" and a "stationary vacuum". this is why any inertial reference frame is just as good as any other and then why in any of these inertial frames, that the measured speed of E&M must be no different than any other.
 
  • #11
I smell aether in this discussion...
 
  • #12
rbj said:
one other thing, it is meaningless to conceive of a vacuum moving at any speed at all. we cannot tell the difference between a "moving vacuum" and a "stationary vacuum". this is why any inertial reference frame is just as good as any other and then why in any of these inertial frames, that the measured speed of E&M must be no different than any other.

I think that vacuum doesn't exist. All we measure , observe, are different forms of energy, and the space as well.
 
  • #13
I was in that class with Alex, and I asked him about it. He's referring to the expansion of the universe.
 
  • #14
The answer given by DaveC426913 is the correct answer. I'd like to remind all of you that speculation and personal theories are not welcome here.

Thread closed.

- Warren
 

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