Can sympathetic vibrations create vocal undertones in acoustic environments?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of sympathetic vibrations and their potential to create vocal undertones in acoustic environments, particularly in the context of a personal experience during a choral concert. Participants explore the nature of sound production, resonance, and the definitions of undertones and overtones in both musical and physical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant shares a personal experience of hearing distinct undertones during a choral performance, raising questions about the nature of what was heard.
  • Another participant discusses the prominence of the fundamental frequency in sound production, suggesting that complex resonance situations can lead to perceived undertones, which may actually be overtones.
  • There is a distinction made between the definitions of undertones from a physicist's perspective versus a musician's perspective, highlighting the ambiguity in terminology.
  • A participant mentions the concept of sympathetic vibrations, providing an example of how playing a note on a piano can resonate with a lower note, potentially creating an undertone effect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and perceptions of undertones and overtones, indicating that multiple competing interpretations exist without a clear consensus on the phenomenon described.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reflects varying definitions and interpretations of sound phenomena, which may depend on individual experiences and the specific acoustic environment. There are unresolved questions regarding the nature of the sounds heard and the definitions used by different disciplines.

grannymama
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Hello! Sorry, I don't have much of a formal education, but am an amateur singer (female, age 66, tenor) who experienced a BIG surprise during one of our choral concerts a few weeks ago. While a fellow tenor was singing a solo (Gounod "Sanctus"), I heard distinct undertones (fourths). I was so shocked I lost my place in the music (but quickly recovered). At my age, I have heard overtones many times, but this was a first! The concert venue was a stone church in the VA. countryside; the undersides of the roof stones were exposed into the church's interior. Once, during a rehearsal there, the acoustics were so exquisite I burst into tears. Whew! Was I really hearing undertones, or was it just a miraculous moment of transcendence? Whatever it was, I will NEVER forget it! Thanks for your advice.
 
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For simple sounds (the vast majority) the fundamental is the loudest and easiest to produce. What that fundamental note is, is dependent on the material, and complex situations creating the vibration.
Sometimes, however, the fundamental is not the most prominent sound -> ussually in very complex resonance situations. What i suspect, is that the vocals you ussualy hear from this person, (or maybe everyone) are actually overtones, that because of the complex situation in the vocal cavity and chords are much louder than the fundamental -> but for some reason at this particular location the actual lowest notes being produced (the fundamental(s) ) were amplified - and seemed to be undertones.

In a way, i think it comes down to your definition of an undertone. A physicist would most likely define an undertone as a frequency lower than the fundamental (which is impossible -> hence my explanation); while a musician would define an undertone as one below the loudest / most-prominent / most common.
I play the saxophone, most of the notes i play are in a certain range of frequencies. If i modify the opening from the bell (with my leg for instance) i can bring out "undertones" which are significantly lower that anything i can create in normal play. The fundamental frequency for the saxophone, is too low for the human ear which means that these "undertones" are still technically overtones; just overtones generally more subtle than the prominent notes.
 
Sympathetic vibrations could result in an "undertone", such as holding a lower note on a piano open while playing a note one octave above the open note.