Can This Double Integral Be Solved in Closed Form?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of finding a closed form solution for a specific double integral involving the expression \(\sqrt{1+4x^{2}+4y^{2}}\). Participants explore various methods for evaluating the integral, including the use of polar coordinates, while addressing the implications of the limits of integration.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the existence of a closed form solution for the double integral.
  • One participant suggests using polar coordinates as a potential method for evaluation.
  • A participant questions the definition of "closed form solution," noting that the integral evaluates to a single number but implies a method of finding that number is sought.
  • Another participant describes the complexity of using polar coordinates due to the rectangular region of integration, detailing the intervals for \(\theta\) where the ray enters and exits the rectangle.
  • Participants discuss the need to determine the limits for the \(r\) integral, with some expressing difficulty in establishing these limits.
  • One participant mentions successfully solving the integrals but does not provide further details, prompting a request for elaboration from another participant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether a closed form solution exists, and there are differing opinions on the effectiveness of polar coordinates for this integral. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific methods and limits for integration.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations related to the assumptions made about the integration method, particularly concerning the dependence on the rectangular region of integration and the complexity introduced by the limits of integration.

mabauti
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is there a closed form solution for this double integral?

[itex]\int^{2}_{1}[/itex][itex]\int^{3}_{4}[/itex][itex]\sqrt{1+4x^{2}+4y^{2}}dydx[/itex]
 
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mabauti said:
is there a closed form solution for this double integral?

[itex]\int^{2}_{1}[/itex][itex]\int^{3}_{4}[/itex][itex]\sqrt{1+4x^{2}+4y^{2}}dydx[/itex]

Have you tried polar coordinates?
 
Exactly what do you mean by "closed form solution"? Since a limits of integration are numbers, the integral is, of course, a single number, which is about as "closed form" as you can get! But I expect that you are asking about a method of finding that number, which is a different matter.

As jedishrfu said, seeing that [itex]x^2+ y^2[/itex], I would try polar coordinates. Of course, the fact that the region of integration is a rectangle rather than a disk complicates things!

As the "[itex]\theta[/itex]" line sweeps up from the x-axis ([itex]\theta= 0[/itex]) it first touches the rectangle at (2, 3) (slope 3/2), then at the point (2, 4) (slope 2), then (1, 3) (slope 3), and finally at (1, 4) (slope 4). That gives three intervals, [itex]\theta= arctan(3/2)[/itex] to [itex]arctan(2)[/itex], [itex]\theta= arctan(2)[/itex] to [itex]arctan(3)[/itex], and [itex]\theta= arctan(3)[/itex] to [itex]arctan(4)[/itex] on which the ray enters and leaves the rectangle through different edges.

For [itex]\theta= arctan(3/2)[/itex] to [itex]arctan(2)[/itex], the ray enters the rectangle through the bottom, [itex]y= r sin(\theta)= 3[/itex] (so [itex]r= 3/sin(\theta)= 3 csc(\theta)[/itex]) and leaves through the right side, [itex]x= rcos(\theta)= 2[/itex] (so [itex]r= 2/cos(\theta)=2 sec(\theta)[/itex]. That integral will be
[tex]\int_{arctan(3/2)}^{arctan(2)}\int_{3csc(\theta)}^{2sec(\theta)}\sqrt{1+4r^2} rdrd\theta[/tex].

For [itex]\theta= arctan(2)[/itex] to [itex]arctan(3)[/itex], the ray enters the rectangle through the bottom and leaves through top, [itex]y= r sin(\theta)= 4[/itex] (so [itex]r= 4/sin(\theta)= 4 csc(\theta)[/itex]). That integral will be
[tex]\int_{arctan(2)}^{arctan(3)}\int_{3csc(\theta)}^{4csc(\theta)}\sqrt{1+4r^2} rdrd\theta[/tex].

Finally, for [itex]\theta= arctan(3)[/itex] to [itex]arctan(4)[/itex], the ray enters the rectangle through the left edge, [itex]x= r cos(\theta)= 1[/itex] (so [itex]r= 1/cos(\theta)= sec(\theta)[/itex]). That integral will be
[tex]\int_{arctan(3)}^{arctan(4)}\int_{3sec(\theta)}^{4csc(\theta)}\sqrt{1+4r^2} rdrd\theta[/tex].

Now, can you do those integrals? Would you consider that "closed form"?
 
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@ jedishrfu : I tried , but I couldn't figure out the intervals for theta/r

@ HallsofIvy: it worked, I can figure out the intervals for theta, but not for r. Thanks :)
 
mabauti said:
@ jedishrfu : I tried , but I couldn't figure out the intervals for theta/r

@ HallsofIvy: it worked, I can figure out the intervals for theta, but not for r. Thanks :)

The limits of the r integral are functions of theta, so you have to do the r integral before the theta integral. And the r integral is straightforward: substitute [itex]u = 1 + 4r^2[/itex].
 
??

I did solve the integrals.

pasmith: could you elaborate please?
 

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