Can Ultrasound Be Used to Penetrate Through Air and Bone?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of using low-frequency ultrasound (20-40 kHz) to penetrate through air and bone, and later, soil, for the purpose of stimulating plant growth without pesticides. Participants explore the technical challenges and potential applications of ultrasound in these contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that a low-frequency ultrasound beam may not effectively pass through air and bone due to the inverse square law and impedance mismatches, which could scatter energy and disrupt beam focus.
  • Others propose that using a phased array transducer or ellipsoidal reflector could help focus the ultrasound energy onto the target, potentially overcoming some limitations.
  • There is a shift in focus from bone to soil, with participants discussing how ultrasound might stimulate plant roots, raising questions about the acoustic impedance and how to effectively deliver ultrasound energy to the roots.
  • Some participants inquire about the dimensions of the roots and the required stimulation power, suggesting practical considerations for conducting experiments in pots or greenhouses.
  • One participant mentions existing studies on ultrasound's potential to increase plant growth rates, though they express skepticism about its ability to replace pesticides and request references for such claims.
  • Questions are raised regarding the specifics of the ultrasound application, including the frequency stability, direction of sound energy, and the nature of pests that might be affected.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of ultrasound in penetrating materials and stimulating plant growth. There is no consensus on the feasibility of using ultrasound as a pesticide alternative or the specific parameters needed for successful application.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights uncertainties regarding the acoustic impedance of soil and the practical challenges of applying ultrasound in agricultural settings. Participants also note the need for further clarification on the experimental design and objectives.

Who May Find This Useful

Researchers and practitioners in botany, agriculture, and acoustics may find this discussion relevant, particularly those interested in innovative pest control methods and the application of ultrasound technology in plant growth stimulation.

  • #31
Sibilo said:
Sibilo said:
Those are not links to peer-reviewed journal articles. Those are links to popular press articles that are trying to sell subscriptions to their platform.

From the PF rules (see INFO at the top of the page):
Greg Bernhardt said:
  • Acceptable Sources:
    Generally, discussion topics should be traceable to standard textbooks or to peer-reviewed scientific literature. Usually, we accept references from journals that are listed in the Thomson/Reuters list (now Clarivate):

    https://mjl.clarivate.com/home

    Use the search feature to search for journals by words in their titles.

    In recent years, there has been an increasing number of "fringe" and Internet-only journals that appear to have lax reviewing standards. We do not generally accept references from such journals. Note that some of these fringe journals are listed in Thomson Reuters. Just because a journal is listed in Thomson Reuters does not mean it is acceptable.

    References that appear only on http://www.arxiv.org/ (which is not peer-reviewed) are subject to review by the Mentors. We recognize that in some fields this is the accepted means of professional communication, but in other fields, we prefer to wait until formal publication elsewhere. References that appear only on viXra (http://www.vixra.org) are never allowed.
 
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  • #32
berkeman said:
Those are not links to peer-reviewed journal articles. Those are links to popular press articles that are trying to sell subscriptions to their platform.

From the PF rules (see INFO at the top of the page):
yes, I understood, but I said from the beginning that it was my experimentation followed by articles. However, now it seems a bit unfair to close, what will you do?
 
  • #33
Sibilo said:
good morning I have a small problem, so can a low frequency 20 - 40 khz ultrasound beam pass through 60 cm of "air" and then 3 cm of bone? Considering the low frequency of ultrasound in this case it is possible
Sibilo said:
yes, I understood, but I said from the beginning that it was my experimentation followed by articles. However, now it seems a bit unfair to close, what will you do?
From the beginning you misrepresented your question, presumably to conceal the strange nature of your experiments. You received good replies with respect to the impedance mismatch problem, and also good suggestions to improve the setup (put the ultrasonic transducers in the soil near the target roots). That is about the best we can do for you now under these circumstances.

Certainly if you or others get work published in the peer-reviewed literature (per the PF rules link that I noted), then contact the Mentors and we can re-open this thread.

Thanks to all who tried to help the OP.
 
Last edited:

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