Can we prevent or abate hurricanes?

[JaredJames]

We don't know that diverting a hurricane here will cause flooding there.

Just to support Dave on this, an example of how far a hurricane's effect can be felt - whenever there is a hurricane in the US, a few weeks later the UK usually receives approximately a fortnight of bad weather, nicknamed getting the "tail end" of the storm.

 

[Discord7]

To ponder feasibility for control is not the same as making the decision to apply the control. Do we blame Einstein for saying E=mc squared when some rascal drops a bad bomb? Contrarily, if systematic ionization of selective atmospheric sites sufficed to meddle with our weather, then our ignorance of such a threat (if it were a grievous threat) would leave us helpless to fend off corresponding mischief makers.

 

[DaveC426913]

To ponder feasibility for control is not the same as making the decision to apply the control. Do we blame Einstein for saying E=mc squared when some rascal drops a bad bomb?

(for the record, the atomic bomb was not my analogy but jeez, Discord is practically making my case for me...):

I'll straighten your analogy:

Einstein formulates E=mc^2 :: we study how hurricanes work. (Science Research - No ethical dilemma.)

The fathers of the atomic bomb ponder the feasibility of making a bomb :: we ponder the feasibility of stopping hurricanes. (Engineering Design - Huge ethical dilemma.)



Yes, absolutely, the fathers of the atomic bomb had huge ethical issues about pondering the feasilbiity of using the science to mess with nature.

As Oppenheimer quoted:
"Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."



Hey, it's your analogy.

 

[Discord7]

(for the record, the atomic bomb was not my analogy but jeez, Discord is practically making my case for me...):

The fathers of the atomic bomb ponder the feasibility of making a bomb :: we ponder the feasibility of stopping hurricanes. (Engineering Design - Huge ethical dilemma.)

But golly: All I meant was to ponder feasibility for a little attenuation of hurricanes, not to put them right out of business. Looking for feasibility is just identifying do-ability if it is there. After that comes the process of determining whether or not any doable action is naughty or nice. I would fear the potential side affect of plaguing ships at sea with too much lightning. If the deed were feasible but naughty, then our study would have enabled us to watch out for bad guys doing the deed.

I think we just need to keep the big endians and little endians equal enough to keep each other under control. But the slammer!

 

[DaveC426913]

What are big endians and little endians?



(P.S. My slammer comment is hopefully regarded as the hyperbole it was meant as. It is simply meant to point out that there's a serious ethical issue here. In all this feasibility talk, is anyone stopping to think whether we should be doing anything? As if we haven't made a cock-up of the planet's climate enough already.)

 

[JaredJames]

(P.S. My slammer comment is hopefully regarded as the hyperbole it was meant as. It is simply meant to point out that there's a serious ethical issue here. In all this feasibility talk, is anyone stopping to think whether we should be doing anything? As if we haven't made a cock-up of the planet's climate enough already.)

I completely agree with you Dave.

However the current view of the masses is to do whatever it takes to save their own small chunk of the Earth and to hell with the rest of the planet.

 

[Evo]

Off topic posts deleted.

 

[propalo]

<Can we prevent or abate hurricanes?> I would prefer to ask different a bit:
HOW can we damp a hurricane and prevent its catastrophic consequences?
Also I would like to fasten off a little one more:
How can we harness this giant amount of energy?
(They say: right quest leads to need answer)
Just materialize a body or substance that swallows wind’s energy depends on its strength;
that exists when it is a wind and does not when it is not;
that is an obstacle for a storm and is not for natural air mass circulation;
that is based on the natural resources: air, water, Earth and theirs products (vapor, clouds, ions, sea water minerals etc.)

 

[Dotini]

"Thunderstorms act as batteries to keep the Earth charged negatively and the atmosphere charged positively. Atmospheric electric currents flow downward in fine weather and upward in thunderstorms. Thunderstorms deliver charge to the Earth by lightning, rain and corona discharges."

-- "All About Lightning", by Martin Uman, Fig 18.1, p 152

Net electrical current also flows in the ground from regions of fine weather to regions of thunderstorms. The total current flowing beneath all thunderstorms in progress throughout the world at any given time is thought to be about 2000 amps, and is in such a direction as to charge the Earth negatively. An approximately equal and opposite current flows in regions of fine weather. The result is that the net negative charge on the Earth and the equal and opposite net positive charge in the atmosphere remain approximately constant.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[propalo]

"Thunderstorms act as batteries to keep the Earth charged "

-- "All About Lightning", by Martin Uman, Fig 18.1, p 152

Net electrical current also flows in the ground from regions of fine weather to regions of thunderstorms.

The next quests:

Theoretical possibility of harnessing those charges;
Quantities of energy they content;
Possibility of damping hurricane power by this way

With full respect,
Propalo

 

[Dotini]

The next quests:

Theoretical possibility of harnessing those charges;
Quantities of energy they content;
Possibility of damping hurricane power by this way

With full respect,
Propalo

Electrical resistivity of the atmosphere decreases with height, but does not vary much above about 30 miles, where begins the electrosphere. The voltage between Earth and the electrosphere in regions of fine weather is about 300,000 volts. To maintain this voltage the Earth has a negative charge of about a million coulombs on its surface and an equal net positive charge is distributed throughout the atmosphere. Measurements show this negative charge on Earth to be roughly constant with time. Calculations show that if this charge were not being continuously resupplied (by thunderstorms) the charge on Earth would disappear in less than an hour.

Exactly what would happen if, for instance, lightning were eliminated is not known. But clearly the electrical balance of the atmosphere would have to change, which in turn would change the weather. Prudence would dictate extreme caution in tampering with lightning.

The above information is sourced from Martin Uman.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[propalo]

...the electrical balance of the atmosphere would have to change, which in turn would change the weather...

Do you mean it is possible to control weather changes by control the electrical balance?

 

[LaurieAG]

In Australia we get cyclones that usually spawn off the north west coast of Western Australia.
In South/East Asia the typhoons usually spawn in an area of ocean north west of the Phillipines.
In the Americas hurricanes usually spawn south/east of the Carribean.

There are also some other interesting things that should also be included like the eastern lows generating off the east coast of eastern Australia and Brazil. These dry cyclones cause high winds and storm surges when completely dry and if they pick up any rain bearing cloud along the way they will smash it against the coast in a cyclonic fury.

Has anybody tried to correlate the cause of cyclones/typhoons/hurricanes to anything else?

In 1969 in Australia we had a record number of cyclones spawning in the coral sea off the tip of Cape York, of which 5 came down to hit the southeast Queensland coast. This coincided with large numbers of US hurricanes in the same year. After the mid 70's we didn't get a single cyclone in Southeast Queensland for 15 years.

 

[Dotini]

Do you mean it is possible to control weather changes by control the electrical balance?

Sorry, I did not in any way mean to imply we currently can or should attempt to control the electrical balance on planet Earth. I thought I made that clear with the reference to "Prudence would dictate extreme caution in tampering with lightning." I stand by that.

However, there are certain, uh, "enthusiasts" out there who have other ideas and might point to experiments such H***P, I think a banned topic at PF, as evidence of their longings or fears.

Respectfully,
Steve

 

[propalo]

Electrical resistivity of the atmosphere decreases with height, but does not vary much above about 30 miles, where begins the electrosphere. The voltage between Earth and the electrosphere in regions of fine weather is about 300,000 volts. To maintain this voltage the Earth has a negative charge of about a million coulombs on its surface and an equal net positive charge is distributed throughout the atmosphere.

We have got a sertain capacitor. If we insert another capacitor into its field, it will charge; and the charge of donor capacitor will became smaller. Is it not a way?

 

[Dotini]

We have got a sertain capacitor. If we insert another capacitor into its field, it will charge; and the charge of donor capacitor will became smaller. Is it not a way?

It is popularly thought Ben Franklin tried to charge his Leyden jar with lightning, and was nearly killed for his efforts. Please don't go out and experiment on your own, propalo, lest you become a "donor" yourself.

Respectfully,
Steve

 

[propalo]

It is popularly thought Ben Franklin tried to charge his Leyden jar with lightning, and was nearly killed for his efforts. Please don't go out and experiment on your own, propalo, lest you become a "donor" yourself.

Respectfully,
Steve

Thank you for your trouble. If jokes apart, the serious essence of my comment would be heaven-earth capacitor that we have to discharge for double profit: preventing disaster and harnessing energy. This point is rather close to our aid

 

[Dotini]

Thank you for your trouble. If jokes apart, the serious essence of my comment would be heaven-earth capacitor that we have to discharge for double profit: preventing disaster and harnessing energy. This point is rather close to our aid

Sorry about the joke, propalo. But I'm simply not smart enough to imagine the capacitor you are proposing. Once I mused about converting all the disused swimming pools in Las Vegas to capacitors. But capturing and storing lightning is well above my pay grade. For starters, I don't think I could afford the liability insurance.

Respectfully yours,
Steve