Can we produce black holes by particle accelerators?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the feasibility of producing black holes using particle accelerators, particularly in the context of current technology like the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) and hypothetical future advancements. Participants explore theoretical frameworks, energy requirements, and the implications of special relativity and quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested, Technical explanation, Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that accelerating protons to extremely high energies could theoretically lead to the creation of black holes, referencing concepts like the Planck length and Schwarzschild radius.
  • Others argue that simply increasing the velocity of particles does not suffice to create black holes, emphasizing the need for high-energy collisions between particles traveling in opposite directions.
  • A participant mentions that while the LHC has searched for microscopic black holes, none have been found, suggesting that current models may not support their creation at accessible energy levels.
  • One participant cites a specific energy threshold of about 10^30 eV for black hole generation, while another challenges this by stating that the exact energy required is unknown and may be closer to the Planck energy (10^28 eV).
  • There is a proposal for a future particle accelerator that could be as large as the solar system, which could theoretically overcome current limitations, although the practicality of such a project is questioned.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of producing black holes with current or future particle accelerators. There is no consensus on the energy requirements or the theoretical frameworks that would allow for such phenomena.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the uncertainty surrounding the energy scales required for black hole production and the speculative nature of proposed future technologies. The discussion also highlights the dependence on various theoretical models of gravity and particle physics.

Xforce
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TL;DR
Thanks to CERN, we now have huge particle accelerators such as the LHC. We use them to enhance our understanding of quantum physics.
Summary: Thanks to CERN, we now have huge particle accelerators such as the LHC. We use them to enhance our understanding of quantum physics.

As everyone know,particle accelerators are huge machines that smashes atoms into pieces at near the speed of light. I have heard making antimatter by using them, which is an inefficient but the only known method. And I have heard the WIMP particles or Higgs-Boson particles that helps us study dark matter.
They are truly amazing stuff. But what about black holes? I heard that we can produce an artificial quantum-sized black hole by a particle accelerator. Of course it must be larger than LHC and the experiment will engage in space. The idea is, to accelerate a proton to such high energy that it’s wavelength shrinks to under The Planck’s length, which is 1.26*10^-35 meters(from Wikipedia). Another way is using the principal of special relativity, when the proton ‘s velocity makes its mass increases, and the Schwarzschild radius(which is 2Gm/c^2)becomes greater than the proton’s diameter(8.751^10^-16 meters). So is it feasible to make a black hole by particle accelerators?
 
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Xforce said:
The idea is, to accelerate a proton to such high energy that it’s wavelength shrinks to under The Planck’s length

Xforce said:
Another way is using the principal of special relativity, when the proton ‘s velocity makes its mass increases, and the Schwarzschild radius(which is 2Gm/c^2)becomes greater than the proton’s diameter(8.751^10^-16 meters)

These descriptions are not correct. Velocity is relative; just having a reference frame in which a proton is moving at a highly relativistic velocity cannot make it into a black hole.

Particle accelerators create high energy collisions by smashing beams of particles together that are traveling in opposite directions. Just making the particles move very fast does nothing by itself.

Xforce said:
is it feasible to make a black hole by particle accelerators?

No. You would have to build an accelerator about the size of the observable universe for it to be able to smash together beams of particles with enough energy to do this.
 
I have done some further research to this, and it turn’s out the energy of a particle collision required to generate a black hole is about 10^30 eV ( according to [The Universe in a Nutshell]), which is significant higher than LHC capacity, however, it is possible to build a particle accelerator as large as the solar system in a few centuries, because in the vacuum of space, no tube is required, we can just put a few million coils around the solar system in an arrangement. Plus, coils can be build larger and more powerful, because we don’t need to worry about to dig a big tunnel underground in space.
 
Xforce said:
the energy of a particle collision required to generate a black hole is about 10^30 eV ( according to [The Universe in a Nutshell]),

A pop science book is not a valid source. The truth is that we don't know for sure what this energy is because we don't know for sure what kind of physics might come into play at these energy scales. A rough guess would be that we would need roughly the Planck energy, ##10^{28}## eV; but that's just a rough guess.

Xforce said:
which is significant higher than LHC capacity

Yes, 15 or more orders of magnitude above the LHC energy qualifies as "significant". :wink:

Xforce said:
it is possible to build a particle accelerator as large as the solar system in a few centuries, because in the vacuum of space, no tube is required, we can just put a few million coils around the solar system in an arrangement. Plus, coils can be build larger and more powerful, because we don’t need to worry about to dig a big tunnel underground in space.

All of this is possible in principle, but whether it's doable in a few centuries is more problematic. Also, I don't think an accelerator the size of the solar system would be enough to reach the Planck energy.
 
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