Can You Own the Moon or Claim Space Property?

[Spirit]

So Hi,
About the question of property. Can some one claim to own the moon or a certain area in space, and thus ask for rentals for anyone land on them or pass through them.

What about 'countries' or 'United States' ownership? Can these 'things' be subject for sale ..etc?

I am all ears!

 

[Pengwuino]

Are we talking about philosophically or legally?

 

[HallsofIvy]

You can claim anything, you can ask anything! Whether anyone accepts your claim is another matter. There is a treaty signed by most nations, though not all, prohibitting any nation from claiming all or part of the moon as its property. I don't know of any legal basis for an individual person claiming to own property that is not part of a nation that could legally support that claim.

 

[quantumcarl]

So Hi,
About the question of property. Can some one claim to own the moon or a certain area in space, and thus ask for rentals for anyone land on them or pass through them.

What about 'countries' or 'United States' ownership? Can these 'things' be subject for sale ..etc?

I am all ears!

Moon Properties: $18.95 usd an acre. All perfectly legal!

http://www.lunarregistry.com/?source=gmoon

Bridge in New York for sale: $2.83 million usd

http://www.richard-seaman.com/USA/Cities/NewYork/BrooklynBridge/ForSale.html

 

[dav2008]

I remember some guy claimed the moon for himself. I guess that's the link that quantumcar posted.

The basic idea of it was that there was some agreement where no country could claim ownership of any land not on Earth. The guy used that to claim the moon since it said nothing of individuals claiming that land.

Of course I don't know how that's going to hold up in court if the future some government establishes a moon base on one of these purchased moon acres.

 

[-Job-]

Until you find a way get to the moon, live there and protect your property without the Government's help, it's always going to be the Government who's going to have control of the moon.

 

[Intuitive]

I believe that if you desire to gain property on the Moon as a U.S Citizen by claim then you would have to follow the http://www.legendsofamerica.com/AH-Homestead.html"

If you Gain Property other than just by Claim you will have to purchase it by those who have set their Flag or Marker upon it.

Also the Moon Property would have to be Marked out with Property Boundries accourding to the Federal Goverment Laws and Regulations and National Laws to make it legit or your Property Claim is meaningless.

You also may have to pay taxes on the Moon Land.

If you are a Billionair then you might achieve a Moon Property Claim and be able to keep it.

However, I would think the Moon will be nothing More than a Space Base Station/Science Lab in the Future
because once the price of setting up a Moon Base was Established it would Pay for itself and would begin to make a Net Profit from Satellite Owners/Clients because it would be cheaper to launch Satellites into Space from the Moon to Earth Orbit.

The Moon would require a Defense System to keep People safe from Space Particals, A location on the Moon that is least effected by incoming Space Rock would seem to be Prime location for an established Moon Space Station, All Stratigies in avoiding incoming Space Material like Meteors would have to be established, Under ground Facilities would probably be required as a Shielding Addition to Meteors and Radiation Exposer, Being on the Moon during a Mega Sun Flare event is a Scary Situation indeed or even an inbound space rock weighing even one pound at 35,000 MPH coming on Radar within a Quater Mile of your Location is a very whitening event.

Even with an advanced Defence Technology it is still extremely dangerous.

 

[jimmie]

I want to sell the moon

Yet another instance of an individual subjecting themself to the thought that that which was outside the individual holds more value than that which is inside the individual.

Perhaps, if an individual values that which is inside only and intends to develop the "First Property", they would indeed be integrated with all that is outside, including the sun, moon and stars.

So long as an individual's thoughts are dominated by that which was outside the individual, the individual shall be subjected to the mood and whims of that foreign thing, and their own mood and whims about that foreign thing, until that individual is extinct.

"It's what's on the inside that counts" is truly the way.

The "real" estate is the First Property. You.

Be objective.

 

[quantumcarl]

I believe that if you desire to gain property on the Moon as a U.S Citizen by claim then you would have to follow the http://www.legendsofamerica.com/AH-Homestead.html"

If you Gain Property other than just by Claim you will have to purchase it by those who have set their Flag or Marker upon it.

Also the Moon Property would have to be Marked out with Property Boundries accourding to the Federal Goverment Laws and Regulations and National Laws to make it legit or your Property Claim is meaningless.

You also may have to pay taxes on the Moon Land.

If you are a Billionair then you might achieve a Moon Property Claim and be able to keep it.

However, I would think the Moon will be nothing More than a Space Base Station/Science Lab in the Future
because once the price of setting up a Moon Base was Established it would Pay for itself and would begin to make a Net Profit from Satellite Owners/Clients because it would be cheaper to launch Satellites into Space from the Moon to Earth Orbit.

The Moon would require a Defense System to keep People safe from Space Particals, A location on the Moon that is least effected by incoming Space Rock would seem to be Prime location for an established Moon Space Station, All Stratigies in avoiding incoming Space Material like Meteors would have to be established, Under ground Facilities would probably be required as a Shielding Addition to Meteors and Radiation Exposer, Being on the Moon during a Mega Sun Flare event is a Scary Situation indeed or even an inbound space rock weighing even one pound at 35,000 MPH coming on Radar within a Quater Mile of your Location is a very whitening event.

Even with an advanced Defence Technology it is still extremely dangerous.

There's an old mining claims law still in effect in the Yukon Territory of Canada.

It states that if you stake a claim (a gold mining property or the 2000 sq ft either side of a creek for panning) you have a day for every 10 miles your claim is situated from the Claims Office (normally in Dawson City) to stake your claim and get your claim tags. As long as you work your claim every year the land is yours.

This 1 day per 10 mile rule was allocated because most prospecters either had no mode of transportation (other than their legs)... or had a stubborn old mule as a ride!

Todays lunar expeditions take about 3 days there and 3 back. What kind of leyway will there be for those people staking a claim on the moon? Will the private modes of transport be taken into account when considering the deadline for claims? Will the founder of Virgin Records and Virgin Airlines set the standard? Or is there such a thing as a space mule?

 

[Spirit]

Yet another instance of an individual subjecting themself to the thought that that which was outside the individual holds more value than that which is inside the individual.

Perhaps, if an individual values that which is inside only and intends to develop the "First Property", they would indeed be integrated with all that is outside, including the sun, moon and stars.

So long as an individual's thoughts are dominated by that which was outside the individual, the individual shall be subjected to the mood and whims of that foreign thing, and their own mood and whims about that foreign thing, until that individual is extinct.

"It's what's on the inside that counts" is truly the way.

The "real" estate is the First Property. You.

Be objective.

It is a title. Being 'sebjective' in proof is sometimes not strong as objective proofs. I am not sure if i got all what you said perfectly. Please try to explain it again.

 

[Tyris]

Or is there such a thing as a space mule?

What you need is a trusty Mechanical Universal Labour Eliminator, or M.U.L.E. robot.

But anyway - the person who owns the moon will presumably be the person who plants a dirty great defence turret on it. Might makes a right, even if it doesn't make justice.

Edited for spelling purposes[/size][/color]

 

[selfAdjoint]

What you need is a trusty Mechanical Universal Labour Eliminator, or M.U.L.E. robot.

But anyway - the person who owns the moon will presumably be the person who plants a dirty great defence turret on it. Might makes a right, even if it doesn't make justice.


Edited for spelling purposes[/size][/color]

Well he'd have to make sure he could resist coalitions of others. Government trumps piracy, at least in the long run. We've managed to keep Antarctica free of exploitation.

 

[quantumcarl]

Well he'd have to make sure he could resist coalitions of others. Government trumps piracy, at least in the long run. We've managed to keep Antarctica free of exploitation.

Is there any proof that there's no exploitation going on in Antartica? It is quartered off to accommodate research by several nations but... where are the detailed reports? So far, they've been exploiting the change in climate by reporting a hole in the ozone there (boosting sunscreen sales) and reporting on climate change and the melting glaciers (boosting sales in catylitic converters, hybrids and other "smog" free technology).

In the very least there is an exploitation of the "un-touched" nature and natural surroundings of Antartica by the researchers and their support contingent.

In the worst case there is, for all we know (and judging by the character of many people in power) exploratory drilling going on in Antartica and in the light of gold and oil prices... among other coveted resources.

The moon would be no different. If we could get there commercially, the place and the face of the moon would be drastically changed in the eyes of human generations to follow... provided there are any.

 

[Hurkyl]

For all we know, Antartica is the home of our secret Alien overlords, and they're just trying to make sure their secret is kept a secret! Is there any proof otherwise?

 

[quantumcarl]

For all we know, Antartica is the home of our secret Alien overlords, and they're just trying to make sure their secret is kept a secret! Is there any proof otherwise?

Yes. The proof is that the secret alien overlords seem to be occupying Washington DC... for the moment.

 

[clouded.perception]

Didn't America claim the moon the first time they went there?

 

[hypatia]

Sorry, I won the moon playing pool a few years ago. Its not yours to sell, unless you come here and beat me at a game of 8 ball.

 

[Smurf]

The world hasn't agreed on who owns Antarctica yet, the moon ain't happening any time soon. I'm sure that and least China and the US will claim part if not all of it, but that will amount to little until far into the future. If ever.

 

[Tyris]

There's legislation to prevent any contry owning the moon, but not any person. That's why you can buy chunks of it from certain places.

 

[russ_watters]

No, Tyris. Those purchases carry no legal weight whatsoever.

 

[JasonRox]

So, I can move to Antarctica and start my own country?

 

[DaveC426913]

There's an old mining claims law still in effect in the Yukon Territory of Canada.

It states that if you stake a claim (a gold mining property or the 2000 sq ft either side of a creek for panning) you have a day for every 10 miles your claim is situated from the Claims Office (normally in Dawson City) to stake your claim and get your claim tags.

Quick, your Moon claim is in jeopardy! You only have 68 years and ... 252 days left!

 

[Tyris]

The Outer Space Treaty was considered by the Legal Subcommittee in 1966 and agreement was reached in the General Assembly in the same year (resolution 2222 (XXI). The Treaty was largely based on the Declaration of Legal Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, which had been adopted by the General Assembly in its resolution 1962 (XVIII) in 1963, but added a few new provisions. The Treaty was opened for signature by the three depository Governments (the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States of America) in January 1967, and it entered into force in October 1967. The Outer Space Treaty provides the basic framework on international space law, including the following principles:

- the exploration and use of outer space shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries and shall be the province of all mankind;
- outer space shall be free for exploration and use by all States;
- outer space is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means;
- States shall not place nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction in orbit or on celestial bodies or station them in outer space in any other manner;
- the Moon and other celestial bodies shall be used exclusively for peaceful purposes;
- astronauts shall be regarded as the envoys of mankind;
- States shall be responsible for national space activities whether carried out by governmental or non-governmental activities;
- States shall be liable for damage caused by their space objects; and
- States shall avoid harmful contamination of space and celestial bodies.

You will notice that it says "space is not subject to national appropriation." It does not prevent an individual owning celestial bodies. Dennis Hope noticed this and filed a claim for ownership on the Moon and all eight other known planets. Hence, he can now sell pieces of it.

 

[russ_watters]

You will notice that it says "space is not subject to national appropriation." It does not prevent an individual owning celestial bodies. Dennis Hope noticed this and filed a claim for ownership on the Moon and all eight other known planets. Hence, he can now sell pieces of it.

He's going to waste a lot of time in a courtroom - the judge will be laughing so hard, he won't be able to tell the guy to get out.

 

[DaveC426913]

You will notice that it says "space is not subject to national appropriation." It does not prevent an individual owning celestial bodies. Dennis Hope noticed this and filed a claim for ownership on the Moon and all eight other known planets. Hence, he can now sell pieces of it.

Doesn't he have to be on it for the claim to be valid?

 

[scott1]

Moon Properties: $18.95 usd an acre. All perfectly legal!

http://www.lunarregistry.com/?source=gmoon

Bridge in New York for sale: $2.83 million usd

http://www.richard-seaman.com/USA/Cities/NewYork/BrooklynBridge/ForSale.html

sounds like crackpottery

 

[Spirit]

But i just wonder in this case:

In [non-country] areas far away from 'land' such as far areas in the oceans and as the moon, can we say that if some one made a 'special law zone' there and put his own laws to be applied that's considered legal? Hehe so far i assume that he can negotiate with the United Nations as 'equal Authority' and discuess the matter with the human race as a whole if 'he/she/it' is an Alien

I am thinking to have a strategic place in the mediterranian , and get some tax from ships passing by $$

 

[russ_watters]

International waters are protected by treaties as well.

 

[Cyrus]

On of these days Alice, Straight to the moooooN!

 

[Teecher]

International waters are protected by treaties as well.

Lucky for them too. I'm in a kung fu mood tonight.

 

[pallidin]

To address this question, one first needs to look at the authority and boundaries of the institution(the UN in this case) remanded with governing this issue. Then one needs to look at what constitutes legal property ownership.
It could be agreed that, for example, the UN has potential legal authority with matters concerning the Earth; conditional upon adjudication from the World Court in select matters.
It should be noted that the UN consists of participating member nations, and if you are a citizen of a member nation you are legally bound in the eyes of the UN to abide by their determinations. A citizen is a "national" of a country. So, to suggest that a private citizen of a member country is not bound to issues regarding "national appropriation" is not correct.

But let's look at "boundary authority" Should the UN have "authority" over the immediate space surrounding the earth, including our moon? I would say yes.
This surrounding area is "strategic", meaning that free-for-all occupation and technological deployment can potentially, significantly, alter the socio-political security of Earth as well as create numerous hazards for other "occupants" So, this area must be "governed" and controlled. Due to global potential, the reasonable authority should be remanded with a global governing entity; and the UN is such an entity.

Therefore, individual "ownership" of our moon is a ludicrous and preposterous idea, regardless of how the original/subsequent treaty lanquage was written.
The overiding point is this: As a strategic world asset recognized by the UN, "ownership" of the moon in any form is inherently illegal and void.

A second point is this: A mere "claim" of celestial rights does NOT afford the rights. Just because the "claim" was received and filed by the UN means nothing other than the fact that it was received and filed.
I could submit a claim to the UN for title rights of the galaxy of Andromeda, and it "might" even be received and filed, but DOES NOT actually grant me ANY rights; rather it just grants me recognition of having filed the "claim", nothing more. I repeat... NOTHING MORE.

All property claims must go through a final "approval" process within the governing authority in order to actually issue a title deed. A title deed is required before ownership is recognized and for subdivision to be legal. The governing authority for the moon is the UN, and they have NEVER issued any title deeds for the moon.