Canister Ignition Protection: How Do Gas Containers Keep Flames from Spreading?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms that prevent flames from spreading into gas containers, specifically focusing on canisters like propane tanks and their ignition protection. Participants explore concepts related to combustion, the fire triangle, and the implications of using different gases, including hydrogen.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how flames remain external to gas containers when ignited, wondering if this principle applies universally to all gases, including hydrogen.
  • Another participant introduces the fire triangle concept, suggesting that the absence of oxygen in the container prevents combustion.
  • A follow-up inquiry asks what would occur if oxygen were present in the gas mixture within the container.
  • Some participants emphasize the importance of maintaining distance from the tank during experimentation, hinting at safety considerations.
  • There is a discussion about the feasibility of igniting gases from a distance, with suggestions of using a fuse.
  • One participant expresses curiosity about the potential dangers of collecting hydrogen in a tank and mixing it with air, questioning whether this could lead to an explosion.
  • Another participant asserts that the container's structural integrity must be compromised for the gas to react with external elements.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the role of the fire triangle in combustion but express differing views on the implications of gas mixtures and safety measures. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific behaviors of gases in containers under various conditions.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about gas behavior, the role of oxygen, and safety measures are not fully explored, leaving room for further inquiry into the conditions under which combustion occurs in gas containers.

JoeSalerno
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So, this is just a simple question that crossed my mind. When say, a blowtorch or propane tank is ignited, how does the entire canister not go up in flames? How does the flame only stay on the outside and not burn through to the inside where the gas supply is? Will whatever principle this works off of work for any gas, even something as flammable as hydrogen? Thanks in advance for anyone who knows.
 
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Do you know what the fire triangle is?
 
Borek said:
Do you know what the fire triangle is?
I expected it to be something this simple. Is the fire not able to burn what's in the container simply because there's no oxygen in the container? If so, what would happen if oxygen was one of the gasses in the container?
 
JoeSalerno said:
Is the fire not able to burn what's in the container simply because there's no oxygen in the container?

Yes.

If so, what would happen if oxygen was one of the gasses in the container?

Apply fire triangle again. Preferably keeping the distance though.

explosion.jpg
 
Borek said:
Yes.
Apply fire triangle again. Preferably keeping the distance though.

View attachment 115275
By keeping the distance, do you mean the gasses would be kept in sepearate containers like a welding torch?
 
No, I mean don't stand too close to the tank while testing the idea :wink:
 
Borek said:
No, I mean don't stand too close to the tank while testing the idea :wink:
In that case, do you have any recommendations for how to ignite it from a distance? Maybe some sort of fuse?
 
Why do you want to use a bomb in the first place?
 
Borek said:
Why do you want to use a bomb in the first place?
I was performing electrolysis with water to get oxygen, and was wondering if it was at all possible to use the excess hydrogen for something like a blowtorch. That's why I was wondering whether it could sustain a flame, or just blow up the canister.
 
  • #10
What is wrong about collecting the hydrogen in a tank and mixing it with the air in the burner?
 
  • #11
Borek said:
What is wrong about collecting the hydrogen in a tank and mixing it with the air in the burner?
Wouldn't that provide a way for all of the gas to ignite and explode at once instead of fueling a flame?
 
  • #12
JoeSalerno said:
Wouldn't that provide a way for all of the gas to ignite and explode at once instead of fueling a flame?

You have already answered that question in the post #3.
 
  • #13
Borek said:
Why do you want to use a bomb in the first place?

Myth-busters style experimentation. If all else fails add more dynamite.

BoB
 
  • #14
Hydrogen, or whatever is in the tank, is contained by a structure made of iron or similar. (though very small amounts can escape)
You'll have to melt the container first before the Hydrogen can react with anything outside of the container.
 

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