Canonical transformations, poisson brackets

In summary, the conversation discusses canonical transformations and their relation to Hamiltonian mechanics. It is shown that these transformations are canonical if and only if certain equations hold. The transformation from the old Hamiltonian to the new one is also discussed, and it is concluded that they are essentially the same except for the use of a different letter. The conversation also touches on the restrictions on variables that can be transformed into, with the explanation that there are fewer restrictions in canonical transformations compared to general coordinate transformations in Lagrangian mechanics. Finally, the use of the chain rule and the preservation of Poisson brackets is suggested as a way to make the final step from the canonical transformation equations to the restriction on variables in Hamiltonian mechanics.
  • #1
Coffee_
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Three questions1) Let's say that N ##q_i## and ##p_i## are transformed into ##Q_k## and ##P_k##, so that:

##q_i = q_i(Q_1,Q_2,. ... , P_1,P_2, ... ) ## and ##p_i=p_i((Q_1,Q_2,. ... , P_1,P_2, ... )##

We have proved that these transformations are canonical only and only if ##\forall i##

##\{Q_k(q_i,p_i),H(q_i,p_i,t)\}_{p,q} = \{Q_k, H(Q_k,P_k,t)\}_{Q,P}## (1)

Until now I understand why this is the case. Next step in the reasoning was saying :

And thus, for any functions ##f(q_i,p_i)## and ##g(q_i,p_i)## must hold ##\{f,g\}_{q,p}= \{f,g\}_{Q,P}## (2)

How to make this final step from (1) to (2) ?

2) We also use the term ''transformed Hamiltonian'' ##K(Q_i,P_i,t)## for which the Hamilton equations hold for ##Q_i## and ##P_i##

I'm pretty sure that it's basically the old hamiltonian ##H(q_i,p_i,t)## with all the ##q_i## and ##p_i## expressed in function of the new variables but the new letter ##K## makes me doubt it a little. If it's the same thing why use a different letter? So just asking to be sure here.

3) Why all of a sudden restrictions on variables we can transform into? In Lagrangian mechanics one can transform in any generalized coordinates ( as long as they are time independent if you want to have nice properties ) but basically no real restrictions.

Suddenly in Hamiltionian mechanics you need to check what I mentioned above. I find it weird since Lagrangian and Hamiltonian formalisms should be equivalent in power. Is there an intuitive reason why one has no restrictions on ( basic ) transformations and the other does?
 
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  • #2
Coffee_ said:
How to make this final step from (1) to (2) ?

Have you tried simply using the chain rule for derivatives and the fact that canonical transformations preserve the Poisson brackets?

Coffee_ said:
Why all of a sudden restrictions on variables we can transform into? In Lagrangian mechanics one can transform in any generalized coordinates ( as long as they are time independent if you want to have nice properties ) but basically no real restrictions.

You have less restrictions on canonical transformations than you do on the general coordinate transformations in Lagrangian mechanics. The reason is that you can always find a canonical transformation corresponding to the Lagrangian change of variables ##q_i \to Q_i(q)##. In the Lagrangian setting, the derivatives of ##q_i## are not independent from the ##q_i## in the same way as the ##p_i## are in Hamiltonian mechanics.
 
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1. What are canonical transformations?

Canonical transformations are a mathematical tool used in classical mechanics to transform one set of variables (such as position and momentum) into another set of variables while preserving the equations of motion. They are used to simplify the analysis of a system by choosing a more convenient set of variables.

2. How do canonical transformations relate to Hamiltonian mechanics?

In Hamiltonian mechanics, canonical transformations are used to transform the Hamiltonian (total energy) and the equations of motion into a new set of variables. This allows for a more convenient and efficient way to solve complex systems.

3. What is a Poisson bracket?

A Poisson bracket is a mathematical operation used to calculate the time evolution of a physical quantity in Hamiltonian mechanics. It is defined as the anti-commutator of two variables, and it represents the rate of change of one variable with respect to another.

4. How are canonical transformations and Poisson brackets related?

Canonical transformations and Poisson brackets are closely related in Hamiltonian mechanics. In fact, canonical transformations preserve the form of Poisson brackets, meaning that if two variables have a certain Poisson bracket in one set of variables, they will have the same Poisson bracket in any other set of variables obtained through a canonical transformation.

5. What are some applications of canonical transformations and Poisson brackets?

Canonical transformations and Poisson brackets are used extensively in classical mechanics to solve complicated systems and to derive important equations, such as the Hamiltonian equations of motion. They are also used in other areas of physics, such as quantum mechanics and statistical mechanics, to study the dynamics of complex systems.

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