Car trouble. Did I just get scammed?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a user's experience with car troubles, specifically issues related to stalling, battery replacement, and alternator diagnosis. Participants explore potential causes for the car's sluggish performance and the appropriateness of the repairs suggested by an auto center.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One user describes their car stalling at traffic lights and experiencing rough idling, leading them to seek a fuel system cleaning.
  • Participants inquire about the car's make, model, year, and mileage to better understand the issue.
  • Some participants suggest that if the battery was new and the alternator was faulty, the battery should not have been replaced, although it is noted that a faulty charging system could potentially damage a new battery.
  • There are questions about whether the auto center tested the alternator properly and if any diagnostic codes were checked.
  • Several participants mention that stalling at idle could be related to the idle speed motor or other sensors, rather than just the battery or alternator issues.
  • One user shares a personal anecdote about their car's computer having issues after a dead battery, suggesting that the user's problem might be similar.
  • Another participant notes that the throttle position sensor and idle air control valve could be contributing factors to the stalling at low speeds.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of the auto center's diagnosis and repairs, with no consensus on whether the battery replacement was justified or if the alternator was indeed faulty. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the root cause of the car's issues.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the information provided, such as the lack of clarity on the initial reason for the battery replacement and whether the car's computer was scanned for trouble codes. Additionally, the discussion does not resolve the ambiguity surrounding the condition of the first battery and the necessity of the repairs performed.

OAQfirst
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My car was running sluggish. Cut out on me a few times at the traffic lights. It's fine when it's going, but idling is rough, and slowing down to a stop is where it's most likely to cut out. Took it to a certain department store's auto center for fuel system cleaning. As they finished up, I was told that the battery died. I had just replaced it a few days earlier, so I asked for an explanation. They suggested that I have the charging system tested. So they did, and told me the alternator was bad. They replaced the battery and alternator. It's running a little better now. Barely. So after spending over $500 there, I returned to the store where I bought the battery. They tested it and said it was fully charged. The manager of the auto center wasn't available yet, but I don't know what kind of explanation to expect, and what I can do. Any suggestions?
 
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OAQfirst said:
My car was running sluggish. Cut out on me a few times at the traffic lights. It's fine when it's going, but idling is rough, and slowing down to a stop is where it's most likely to cut out.
Car make, model, and year?
How many miles on the car?
"Cut out" = Stall?

Took it to a certain department store's auto center for fuel system cleaning.
Did they recommend the cleaning, or did you ask for it, specifically?

As they finished up, I was told that the battery died. I had just replaced it a few days earlier, so I asked for an explanation. They suggested that I have the charging system tested. So they did, and told me the alternator was bad. They replaced the battery and alternator. It's running a little better now. Barely. So after spending over $500 there, I returned to the store where I bought the battery. They tested it and said it was fully charged.
If it was a new battery, just discharged due to a faulty charging system, they should not have replaced it. However, it is possible (but unlikely) that the new battery was damaged by a faulty charging system.

The next part is confusing: You returned to the store where you had purchased battery #1 and had them test battery #2?
 
If the battery was new and there was a problem with the alternator (that wouldn't explain the car running rough though, it would just leave the battery discharging which you'd notice on start-up), there would have been no good reason to replace the battery.
 
Stalling at idle usually involves the idle speed motor (may be different terminology for different makes and models). The idle speed motor uses feed back from a number of sensors to give the proper idle speed for different air temperatures and manifold pressures ect.

The most noticed change in idle speed can be noticed when the A/C kicks on.

Did they charge you for a scan of your vehicles computer for trouble codes?? I think auto zone does that for free.

If you just needed fuel injector cleaning the problem would have been noticeable at other speeds especially on acceleration.

Every time I take one of my vehicles in for an oil change they tell me it needs to have the fuel injectors cleaned.:rolleyes: I use Chevron Techron that I add to my gas tank regularly. My fuel injectors are fine.
 
pantaz said:
Car make, model, and year?
How many miles on the car?
"Cut out" = Stall?


Did they recommend the cleaning, or did you ask for it, specifically?


If it was a new battery, just discharged due to a faulty charging system, they should not have replaced it. However, it is possible (but unlikely) that the new battery was damaged by a faulty charging system.

The next part is confusing: You returned to the store where you had purchased battery #1 and had them test battery #2?

92 Chevy Lumina

Cut out = I had to turn the key to get the car started. I asked for the cleaning.

When the "dead" battery was removed, they put in a new one. I took the "dead" battery back to the other store and they said it was fully charged.
 
Holy cow did they even test the alternator and show you the results?? If the alternator was so bad that the battery went dead in just a few days you would have had an alternator, or check engine light glowing red on the instrument panel.

Gees I hope you didn't go to Sears.
 
edward said:
Stalling at idle usually involves the idle speed motor (may be different terminology for different makes and models). The idle speed motor uses feed back from a number of sensors to give the proper idle speed for different air temperatures and manifold pressures ect.

The most noticed change in idle speed can be noticed when the A/C kicks on.

Did they charge you for a scan of your vehicles computer for trouble codes?? I think auto zone does that for free.

If you just needed fuel injector cleaning the problem would have been noticeable at other speeds especially on acceleration.

Every time I take one of my vehicles in for an oil change they tell me it needs to have the fuel injectors cleaned.:rolleyes: I use Chevron Techron that I add to my gas tank regularly. My fuel injectors are fine.

I don't see a charge for testing the charging system.

The problem is noticeable only at slow speed, coming to a stop, and stopped. It runs much quieter than usual.
 
edward said:
Holy cow did they even test the alternator and show you the results?? If the alternator was so bad that the battery went dead in just a few days you would have had an alternator, or check engine light glowing red on the instrument panel.

Gees I hope you didn't go to Sears.

Yeah, there wasn't any indication of problems in the instrument panel.

Sears.
 
You didn't give us the whole story: why was the battery replaced in the first place?

And...

I had an Eagle Talon and I had a nasty habit of leaving the interior lights on and running the battery dead. The thing is, the memory in the car's computer was apparently volatile and every time I ran the battery dead, the car would have trouble figuring out how to idle for several days after I did that. After a little while, the problem would go away. It is quite possible that you had all that work done for absolutely no reason if your issue was the same as mine.

Either way, a battery and an alternator are easily tested (and as said, the car tells you how they are doing when you turn it on!), so there should not have been much ambiguity about what was wrong.
 
  • #10
The 92's had throttle body injection, the injectors should be clean now. The throttle position sensor and the idle air control valve will probably need to be checked. They are the most frequent cause of stalling at low speed.

It is quieter than usual because it is probably idling to slow. That also falls in line with stalling when you come to a stop.
 
  • #11
russ_watters said:
You didn't give us the whole story: why was the battery replaced in the first place?

After they finished up cleaning the fuel system, I was told that the battery had died.
 
  • #12
OAQfirst said:
After they finished up cleaning the fuel system, I was told that the battery had died.

You are talking sbout the new battery right?? Did the store you bought it from refund your money?
 
  • #13
edward said:
You are talking sbout the new battery right?? Did the store you bought it from refund your money?

Well, they're both new. The first battery, the one only a few days old and already in the car when I brought it in, is what they said had died. They replaced it with their new battery. I took that previous battery back, and they tested it and said it was fully charged. So, no refund. I'll have it tested by a third party next week.
 
  • #14
OAQfirst said:
After they finished up cleaning the fuel system, I was told that the battery had died.
No, the first battery. You said you had the battery replaced before you started having this problem:
As they finished up, I was told that the battery died. I had just replaced it a few days earlier [emphasis added]
Why did you replace the battery a few days earlier and did the problems start immediately after that? If they did, the problem was probably what I said it was: the car's computer re-learning how to run the engine. It is a common thing that you can find via google:
Not sure if Toyota's CPU's do learn after loosing power, but it's possible, some GM's do that.
Once you disconnect the battery, the ECU will have to go through a complete learning cycle that will last approx. 200-300 miles.
During that time, it will "learn" how much fuel to feed your engine, under a variety of temperatures, and load conditions.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/corolla-matrix/110386-rough-idle-after-dead-battery/
 
  • #15
OAQfirst said:
Well, they're both new. The first battery, the one only a few days old and already in the car when I brought it in, is what they said had died. They replaced it with their new battery. I took that previous battery back, and they tested it and said it was fully charged. So, no refund. I'll have it tested by a third party next week.
Take battery #2 back and demand a refund, since you didn't need it.
 
  • #16
russ_watters said:
No, the first battery. You said you had the battery replaced before you started having this problem: Why did you replace the battery a few days earlier and did the problems start immediately after that? If they did, the problem was probably what I said it was: the car's computer re-learning how to run the engine. It is a common thing that you can find via google:
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/corolla-matrix/110386-rough-idle-after-dead-battery/

Oh. Yeah, that battery had died one night. I replaced that one without a hitch. I've done that a few times before with this car and never had any trouble like this. I didn't have any trouble with the battery at all. The battery was fine when I had it. They worked on the car and then they told me that the battery went kaput. And that was a big surprise, which made me think something serious was wrong.
 
  • #17
Maybe you just need new spark plugs?
 
  • #18
Best advice is probably to get a new mechanic.
 
  • #19
OAQfirst said:
My car was running sluggish. Cut out on me a few times at the traffic lights. It's fine when it's going, but idling is rough, and slowing down to a stop is where it's most likely to cut out. Took it to a certain department store's auto center for fuel system cleaning. As they finished up, I was told that the battery died. I had just replaced it a few days earlier, so I asked for an explanation. They suggested that I have the charging system tested. So they did, and told me the alternator was bad. They replaced the battery and alternator. It's running a little better now. Barely. So after spending over $500 there, I returned to the store where I bought the battery. They tested it and said it was fully charged. The manager of the auto center wasn't available yet, but I don't know what kind of explanation to expect, and what I can do. Any suggestions?

I had a similar problem earlier this summer. As it turns out, my car's radiator--in a separate compartment of course--also cools my transmission fluid. But because my engine heat sensor was disconnected, my car was not regulating the transmission fluids temperature by means of the radiator. So therefore, every time the automatic tried to shift gears taking off from traffic lights (after having been driving a while), my engine would stall--because automatics are controlled by temperature changes in the engine, via the tranny fluid.

All I did was reconnect it myself, and haven't stalled since. That was end of June.

Check this out seriously. It could just be that your heat sensor is disconnected, as in my case; or needs to be replaced.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #20
OAQfirst said:
Oh. Yeah, that battery had died one night. I replaced that one without a hitch. I've done that a few times before with this car and never had any trouble like this. I didn't have any trouble with the battery at all. The battery was fine when I had it. They worked on the car and then they told me that the battery went kaput. And that was a big surprise, which made me think something serious was wrong.

How many times have you replaced the battery? They should typically last 3-5 years, unless you're either using it very little, or there's a problem with the charging circuit.
 
  • #21
The plugs are new.

That first battery that died I had a year. Cheap little thing. I don't drive around much because work and school are close.
 
  • #22
OAQfirst said:
That first battery that died I had a year. Cheap little thing. I don't drive around much because work and school are close.

Did you have anyone check if that battery was bad or just discharged? A battery that's only a year old losing its charge would be consistent with a bad alternator. But, if it was the alternator, the battery that was only a week old wouldn't have needed replacing, just charging, and would then be fine once the alternator was replaced.

Sears is a bit notorious for trying to push new battery sales, whether you need it or not.
 
  • #24
Moonbear said:
Did you have anyone check if that battery was bad or just discharged? A battery that's only a year old losing its charge would be consistent with a bad alternator. But, if it was the alternator, the battery that was only a week old wouldn't have needed replacing, just charging, and would then be fine once the alternator was replaced.

Sears is a bit notorious for trying to push new battery sales, whether you need it or not.

The first battery I replaced was a 12v EverStart 630/525, $43 cheap, and I've had that same one before. They only last a year in my car. My father tried to jump start it, but not a chance. So I replaced it with another EverStart. This is the one that Sears said was dead. And WalMart says it isn't. There aren't too many places around here that I can get parts, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered with either of them. Sears put in the current battery, a DieHard. And then they replaced the alternator.
 
  • #25
Who does your oil changes? Jiffy Lube gives me a battery test report every time.

And $43 is not cheap if the battery lasts only one year. Do you know anyone who pays $172 for a new battery every four years?

Regardless, cheap or not, a car battery on a properly functioning car lasts more than 1 year.
 

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