Cardinality of Set: Proving lXl<lYl Implies lXl\inlYl

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that if the cardinality of set X is less than that of set Y, denoted as |X| < |Y|, then |X| must belong to |Y|. The context involves cardinal numbers and their properties, particularly focusing on the ordering of cardinalities and their relationship to ordinals.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to establish the relationship between |X| and |Y| through a series of logical implications involving one-to-one functions and the properties of cardinal numbers. They express uncertainty about why |X| must belong to |Y|.
  • Some participants suggest considering the properties of ordinals and the implications of the Cantor-Bernstein theorem in relation to the proof.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, with some expressing confidence in their reasoning while others seek clarification on specific points. There is a constructive exchange of ideas, and hints have been provided without reaching a definitive conclusion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to the properties of ordinals and cardinal numbers, as well as the implications of various theorems, which may influence the understanding of the problem. There is an emphasis on the logical structure of the proof and the assumptions being made.

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Homework Statement



Hi!
I want to show that lXl<lYl implies lXl\inlYl where lXl and lYl are some cardinal numbers of two sets X and Y and the ordering < is defined on cardinal numbers .


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


I tried to solve it by myself as follows:
lXl < lYl \rightarrow lXl\leqlYl and not lXl=lYl( X is not equipotent to Y)
\rightarrow there is a function f on X into Y s.t. f is a 1-1 function, and
not lXl=lYl( cardinal numbers lXl and lYl are not same)
\rightarrow there is a function f on X into Y s.t. f is a 1-1 function, and
lXl\inlYl or lYl\inlXl since lXl and
lYl are initial ordinals.

But I can't determine why lXl must belong to lYl.

Could you give me a hint??
 
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|X| and |Y| are ordinals, and |X|<|Y| as ordinals (prove this). So, what do you know about the order relation on the ordinals?
 
micromass said:
|X| and |Y| are ordinals, and |X|<|Y| as ordinals (prove this). So, what do you know about the order relation on the ordinals?

I tried to prove it.
I found that if i assume lXl>lYl as ordinals, then it leads to lYl is less than or equal to lXl as cardinals. Then cantor- bernstein's theorem makes a conclusion s.t. lXl=lYl(X is equipotent to Y) . But this is contradiction to the hypothesis lXl<lYl as cardinals. And if lXl=lYl as ordinals, then it is obviously contradiction to the hypothesis. So, lXl<lYl.
Is my proof right??
 
Last edited:
Looks good!
 
micromass said:
Looks good!

I really appretiate for your help.
Thanks!
 

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