People make assumptions all the time. Planning and goal-directed behavior requires that you try to predict the future. Groups of people produce, both intentionally and accidentally, standards, both explicit and implied, to facilitate this behavior. I have been trying to contrast assumptions with knowledge regarding these standards and arguing about what kind of a standard this is:
My problem implication. if P and Q are people, P is sexually attracted to Q implies Q wants sexual attention from P
But maybe we need a simpler scenario because we keep getting distracted with the complexities of attraction and communication and people's desires and intentions.
Say you and some friends get a hotel room at a place you've never been before. You want to wash your face with some warm water. You assume that there will be a sink in the bathroom. Your assumption turns out to have been correct. There are two cylindrical knobs labeled "HOT" and "COLD". You assume that turning the HOT knob counterclockwise will let water flow from the faucet and the temperature of the water flow will increase to about 130*F within about 10 seconds. You try to turn the HOT knob counterclockwise, but it doesn't budge, so you put more force into it, and it still doesn't budge. You call your buddy Pete over. Pete is utterly convinced, he believes unquestionably, that the knob will turn counterclockwise. He takes it as an unbreakable standard that all cylindrical knobs loosen by counterclockwise rotation, and he believes that the knob is currently fully tightened because no water is flowing. So he puts even more force into turning the knob. After not being able to budge it for several minutes, he goes to get some tools, and your other friend Rachel comes over. Rachel is aware of the counterclockwise standard, but she doesn't consider it to be an official standard that the designer is legally required to follow. She also assumes that even if it were, the designer still might not follow it. She is also aware that she doesn't know the current state of the knob. She takes the observation that the knob hasn't turned as an indication that at least one of the assumptions about the knob's design and current state is wrong. So she tries to turn it clockwise. It turns and water flows just as Pete saunters in with a sledgehammer. So you come over and stick your hand under the faucet and get second-degree burns form the 200*F water. You turn off the HOT knob and turn on the COLD knob hoping for some relief. 200*F water still comes out of the faucet. So you try to sue the hotel for breaking both a knob-labeling standard and a water-temperature standard that you think should exist. You win on the water-temperature standard and lose on the labeling standard, though the judge admits that mislabeling things is annoying.
So... we all make assumptions and standards of different kinds exist all around us. Pete knows. Rachel merely assumes. I have no objections with assuming. I have objections with knowing. I don't want to be a knob that won't turn. Wait, hah, I wasn't actually going for a metaphor there, so don't waste your time trying to figure one out. My problem implication is not an explicit standard. I don't think it is an implied or legal standard either. I don't think that it should be any kind of standard because there is no way for people to control when others are attracted to them, and it is unfair to hold a person responsible for things outside of their control. I think it is also an unenforceable standard because the list of things that people find attractive covers the entire spectrum of human behaviors, so a person who wants to avoid attracting anyone has no way to do so. Some people find make-up attractive and some find no make-up attractive. So wearing make-up might attract some people and not wearing make-up might attract some people. There are no other options outside of wearing make-up or not wearing make-up. The same goes for everything else. So just by being alive, you risk attracting someone. I am not complaining about this -- I am pointing it out as something that makes my problem implication unenforceable.
TheStatutoryApe said:
What decision? To notice? To find one attractive? Do you have a tendency to decide these things? Or do they just happen?
They usually just happen. They happen because I let them happen. If I didn't want to feel sexual attraction, there are many things that I could do to avoid it. My experiencing attraction is a combination of how my body works and the input it receives. I do have enough control over both how my body works and the input that it receives that I could live my life with practically no experience of sexual attraction. This same control allows me to live a life largely free of fear, rage, or regret -- because I choose and work for that kind of life. That I don't live a life free from the experience of sexual attraction is my choice.
You send signals all the time. Unless you are a Zen master you really can not control it. Your presence, posture, gait, clothes, makeup, scent, facial expressions, ect are all information that you are giving off constantly whether you are intending to or not. Since it is information being given off by your person it is your responsibility.
Yes, I agree. You are responsible for the signal. You are also responsible for some reasonably-foreseeable consequences of the signal being received and interpreted by others. However, the receiver is also responsible for their reception and interpretation of the signal. You cannot put all of the responsibility on the sender.
There is a difference between your person and your environment. Scented candles in the bath may be nice but that is not the same as placing a fragrance upon oneself.
Okay, wait. If I am out in public, and I want to smell a scent, is there a difference between spraying it on my skin vs. on my clothing? What if I spray it on a tissue and hold the tissue in my hand? What if I spray it in the air or on someone sitting next to me? Is there any way that I can smell this scent while out in public without it being taken as a signal to someone that I want sexual attention? Is it fair to someone to prohibit them from enjoying a scent while out in public because someone else might also find the scent attractive? In what way is that a desirable rule to have?
By the bye, there are other types of attention. Maybe I don't go in public smelling like @$$ because it seems like the courteous thing to do. Some people use their appearance as a status symbol. Some people use it to attract friends.
Do you wear a robe out in public often?
No, but I choose almost all of my clothing for the way that it feels and looks because those are things that I experience. I know that others experience them too, but that doesn't change the fact that I also experience them and might care more about my own experience than about the experiences of others. You dismissed the idea of someone caring about how they appear to themselves, or caring more about how they appear to themselves than how they appear to others, and I am saying that it happens. And you admit that it happens:
I know there are people who do and they do so because they do not care and don't mind sending the message that they do not care.
Are you really not making a conscious choice in the manner of signal you will be sending out to those around you? And if you find that the clothes you are wearing are attractive would it be much of a leap really to believe that you have an intention, on some level, of projecting an attractive image to others?
Yes, I do consider people's reactions to my appearance. Yes, it is a leap to believe that a person was seeking some result because it was a predictable consequence of their actions. There could have been tons of predictable consequences of their actions. Maybe the person was seeking only one of them or trying to avoid a predictable consequence of some complementary action.
I choose to wear long shorts or pants and a tank top to go out running during the summer in FL because I don't want to die of heat exhaustion and I know that wearing less would attract more attention than I am willing to deal with. I sometimes choose cotton or modal because they feel and move better than most moisture-wicking synthetic materials. I wear sunglasses if I think the sun will bother me and I am not wearing a ballcap. I wear a ballcap if it's raining or if I want to discourage people form interacting with me. Lots of factors determine what I end up wearing whenever I leave the house. And sometimes sexual attention only enters the equation as something that I want to minimize. It's true. There is no arguing about it. It is a leap to believe otherwise. I usually end up looking what I consider to be hot when I leave the house, and I expect that some people are also going to think so. Sometimes this is exactly what I want. Sometimes this was not my intention, but I do not care. Other things were more important to me.
) and you know others would likely find it attractive or unattractive but you don't normally wear it in public (just a guess). Instead you prefer to wear other clothes. Why? Are you really not making a conscious choice in the manner of signal you will be sending out to those around you? And if you find that the clothes you are wearing are attractive would it be much of a leap really to believe that you have an intention, on some level, of projecting an attractive image to others?
