Centripetal force of a ball swinging

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of centripetal force in the context of a ball swinging in a vertical circle. Participants explore the relationship between tension, gravity, and centripetal force, questioning how these forces interact in both uniform and non-uniform circular motion.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the centripetal force is the net force acting towards the center of the circle, equating it to mv^2/r.
  • Others argue that in a vertical circle, the tension force varies and thus the net force cannot be purely centripetal.
  • A question is raised about whether centripetal force always points to the center of the circle, regardless of the type of circular motion.
  • Participants discuss the components of gravitational force, with some suggesting that there is a radial component of gravity that affects the tension required to maintain circular motion.
  • There is contention over the definition and existence of a component of gravity that is parallel to the string, with some participants requesting visual aids to clarify their points.
  • One participant concludes that centripetal force must always point to the center, while others challenge this notion based on the varying forces in a vertical circle.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on the nature of centripetal force and the role of gravitational components in a vertical circular motion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions and components of forces involved, particularly in relation to the orientation of the string and the gravitational force. The discussion highlights the complexity of analyzing forces in non-uniform circular motion.

Zarquad
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(Look at attached pic) The red ball is attached to a string which is being spun in a vertical circle. The downwards force is gravity and the other green one is the tension force. The blue is the sum of the green vectors. It is the centripetal force because it's the net force (and thus is equal to mv^2/r). On the other hand, isn't centripetal force the "center seeking" force, which means it should be pointed to the center of the circle? In that case, how can it be called the centripetal force?

Thanks.
 

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Zarquad said:
The downwards force is gravity and the other green one is the tension force. The blue is the sum of the green vectors. It is the centripetal force because it's the net force (and thus is equal to mv^2/r).
No. The tension is the centripetal force equal to mv^2/r. The net force is not purely centripetal in this case, meaning that the speed along the circle varies.
 
So does the centripetal force, by definition, ALWAYS point to the center of the circle? Uniform or non uniform circular motion?

e; It still doesn't make sense. The circle is a vertical one (I forgot to mention that) so the amount of tension needed varies. If I wanted to maintain a constant velocity my centripetal force would be constant, but my tension force can't be constant in a vertical circle situation.
 
Last edited:
Zarquad said:
So does the centripetal force, by definition, ALWAYS point to the center of the circle? Uniform or non uniform circular motion?
I would say that this the common definition.

Zarquad said:
The circle is a vertical one (I forgot to mention that) so the amount of tension needed varies.
In that case the centripetal force is tension plus the radial component of gravity. The tangential component of gravity is changing the speed.
 
What's the radial component? Gravity is on the y scale, it doesn't have an x component, unless you're changing the axes somehow.
 
Zarquad said:
What's the radial component?
Parallel to string.
 
So in that case it wouldn't be pointing to the center and my original statement is correct.
 
Sorry, I read that as perpendicular for some reason. A gravity component is only parallel to the string twice in the entire circle though.
 
Zarquad said:
A gravity component is only parallel to the string twice in the entire circle though.
No. There is always a radial gravity component, exept twice in the circle when it is zero.
 
  • #10
What are you axes/what's your reference?
 
  • #11
Zarquad said:
What are you axes/what's your reference?
It doesn't matter. Parallel to string and perpendicular to string are coordinate independent statements.
 
  • #12
I don't see a component of gravity that is parallel to the string. Can you draw it out?
 
  • #13
Zarquad said:
I don't see a component of gravity that is parallel to the string. Can you draw it out?
Gravity points downward. Unless the string is horizontal, there will be a component of the weight parallel to the string.
 
  • #14
Zarquad said:
I don't see a component of gravity that is parallel to the string. Can you draw it out?
Just project the weight vector onto the string.
 
  • #15
Oh, alright, I get it now. So in conclusion basically, centripetal force does have to always point to the center?
 
  • #16
Zarquad said:
So in conclusion basically, centripetal force does have to always point to the center?
Of course. (That's the definition of centripetal.)
 
  • #17
Alright, thanks.
 

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