Change in temperature for a system with entropy change

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a 2.45-kg aluminum pan at 155°C being plunged into 3.58 kg of water, with a given entropy change of 162 J/K for the system. The goal is to determine the initial temperature of the water, but the final temperature of the system is not provided.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to set up an equation for the change in entropy based on the masses and specific heats of the aluminum and water, but struggles with the lack of the final temperature.
  • Some participants question the possibility of using conservation principles, such as energy conservation, to derive additional equations.
  • Others suggest looking up specific heat values to aid in the calculations, but note that this still leaves two unknowns in the equations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring different approaches to relate the known quantities to the unknowns. There is no explicit consensus yet, but several lines of reasoning are being examined, including the conservation of energy and the use of specific heats.

Contextual Notes

The problem does not provide the final temperature of the system, which is a critical piece of information needed to solve for the initial temperature of the water. Participants are working within the constraints of the problem as stated.

MalcolmMck
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Homework Statement


I am Pretty Lost with this problem...[/B]
A 2.45-kg aluminum pan at 155∘C is plunged into 3.58 kg of water. If the entropy change of the system is 162 J/K, what was the initial temperature of the water? NOTE:We did not receive a Tf for the system.

Homework Equations


Δs=mCln(T1/T2)
Δs=∫(1/T)dQ
Q=mcΔT

The Attempt at a Solution


Here's what I have so far:
The change in entropy of the system is equal to the change in entropy of the aluminum plus the change in entropy of the water. This gave me the equation:
Δs=MaCa(ln(Tf/Tia))+MwCw(ln(Tf/Tiw))
where...
Ma and Mw are the masses of aluminum and water respectively
Ca and Cw are the specific heats of aluminum and water respectively
Tf is the final equilibrium temperature for the system\
Tia is the initial temperature of the aluminum
Tiw is the desired answer, the initial temperature of the water

I don't know how to move on without the Tf of the system. My attempts at solving for Tf led to something very messy. Any help is greatly appreciated!
 
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Is there some other quantity in this scenario that is a conserved quantity ? Perhaps that way you can come to another equation so you end up with just as many equations as unknowns ...
 
As the entropy of the system is changing, the only thing that I could think of that would be conserved is energy. The first law of thermodynamics states that ΔU=W+Q where U is the internal energy. Also the equation relating T,U, and s is 1/T=Δs/ΔU. I'm not quite sure how I would use these two to produce another useful equation or incorporate conservation.
 
Perhaps you are allowed to look up the cp ?
 
Yes we are allowed to look up the specific heats. For aluminum Ca is 0.900 J/gK and for water, Cw is 4.184 J/gK. However, plugging these into my original equation still leaves Tiw and Tf unknown
 

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