Changes in angular momentum for ro-vibrational transitions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the selection rules for transitions between ro-vibrational levels of diatomic molecules, specifically focusing on the changes in the rotational quantum number J during these transitions. Participants explore the implications of angular momentum carried by photons and the conditions under which certain transitions are allowed or forbidden.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the change in the rotational quantum number J cannot be zero (##\Delta J = 0##) during a transition, suggesting that the photon carries one unit of angular momentum and should allow for J-1, J, and J+1 states.
  • Another participant references external sources to provide context on selection rules but does not engage with the initial question directly.
  • A participant notes that the selection rule ##\Delta J = \pm 1## applies to both circularly and linearly polarized light, expressing a desire for a more intuitive explanation rather than a mathematical one.
  • One participant proposes an intuitive perspective that the case of ##J_{ph} = 0## is forbidden due to its association with monopole radiation, referencing classical electromagnetism and the nonexistence of magnetic monopoles.
  • This same participant expresses uncertainty about their reasoning and invites others to explore the proof related to vector potentials and spherical harmonics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the reasons behind the selection rules, and multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the implications of angular momentum in ro-vibrational transitions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the physical intuition behind the selection rules and the conditions under which certain transitions are allowed. There is also a mention of the mathematical derivation, but its applicability to the intuitive understanding of the problem is questioned.

Malamala
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Hello! If we have a transition between 2 ro-vibrational levels of the same electronic state of a diatomic molecule the selection rules require for the changes in the rotational quantum number J that ##\Delta J = \pm 1##. Why can't we have ##\Delta J = 0##? The photon carries one unit of angular momentum, so if we start with a state with angular momentum J, shouldn't we be able to obtain J-1, J and J+1 by combining it with the 1 unit of angular momentum from the photon? Thank you!
 
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dRic2 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigid_rotor#Selection_rules

maybe it is what you are looking for
I've actually seen that derivation before. In addition, if you do the math, the ##\Delta J = \pm 1## is true for circularly polarized light, too, not only for linearly polarized one. However I was hoping for a more physical/intuitive explanation of this, rather than just: "The math says so". As I said, given that the photon has spin 1, I expected that adding that to a spin J, the resulting spin would be J-1, J, J+1, but it seems like the J case doesn't hold and I was wondering why basic angular momentum addition can't be applied here, without having to go through all the math.
 
##J_2 - J_1## is the change in total angular momentum of the molecule, so the photon should carry this momentum (##|J_2 - J_1| < J_{ph} < |J_2 + J_1|##). From an intuitive point of view, I think (I'm not sure) the case ##J_{ph} = 0## is forbidden because it would be associated with a monopole radiation. From classical EM we know that magnetic monopoles do not exist and electric monopoles do not radiate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multipole_radiation#Electric_monopole_radiation,_nonexistence). If I remembered correctly, you may be able to prove this by expanding the vector potential in spherical harmonics or something on those lines. I've never actually tried and I'm not sure this is right because I can't remember where I read it. If you succeed let me know.
 

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