Chemicals for rocket fuel and superchemicals?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the best chemical mixes for rocket fuels, both solid and liquid, as well as the concept of "super chemicals," which are proposed to have enhanced thrust or specific impulse compared to conventional chemicals. Participants explore various propellant options and their characteristics, including specific impulse and the feasibility of electric propulsion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the best chemical mixes for solid and liquid rockets and mentions the idea of "super chemicals" that could produce more thrust or specific impulse.
  • Another participant suggests that liquid hydrogen and oxygen are among the best liquid propellants, noting their cryogenic storage requirements and the use of a hydrogen-rich LH2/LOx mixture in the Space Shuttle Main Engines.
  • It is mentioned that hydrogen and fluorine could yield a more energetic reaction but are unsuitable for atmospheric use due to the toxicity of HF.
  • For solid fuels, ammonium perchlorate is highlighted as a preferred oxidizing agent, with a balance between energy density and explosiveness being crucial.
  • One participant asks about the specific impulse of the hydrogen/oxygen mixture and expresses interest in electric propulsion methods.
  • Another participant notes that fuels generally contain more energy with greater mass, comparing diesel and petrol, and mentions kerosene and LOX as a simple option, along with historical uses of gasoline and LOX by Goddard and others.
  • Specific impulse for bi-chemical liquid fuels is stated to be around 450 seconds, with a specific impulse of 453 seconds for the Space Shuttle Main Engines in vacuum conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the best propellant options, with some suggesting specific mixtures while others raise questions about electric propulsion. There is no consensus on the existence or definition of "super chemicals," and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the optimal fuel choices and methods for electric propulsion.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific impulse values and historical propellant choices, but there are unresolved questions about the implications of using different propellants and the specifics of electric propulsion technology.

BigFly
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I want to get a little into rocketry and i want to know what are the best chemical mixes for solid and liquid state rockets? also i wanted to know if there are such things as super chemicals. I am not sure if i made that up or not or it just a different word but, what i mean are chemicals that have been altered to have the ability to create a lot more thrust and/or specific impulse than regular chemicals.
 
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It's pretty hard to beat liquid hydrogen and oxygen as far as liquid propellants go, but they require cryogenic storage. The Space Shuttle Main Engines use a hydrogen-rich LH2/LOx mixture. A more energetic reaction with higher specific impulse would be H+F (hydrogen + fluorine), but that would be unsuitable in the atmosphere since HF is extremely corrosion and toxic to living things.

There are no liquid superchemicals.

As far as solids go, there is a delicate balance of energy density and explosiveness. Perchlorates are the preferred oxidizing agent, and ammonium perchlorate is commonly used.

See - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Solid_Rocket_Booster#Propellant

http://www.esa.int/esaMI/Launchers_Access_to_Space/ASEDYQI4HNC_0.html
 
hmm that's interesting what the specific impulse for that mixture just wondering? also I am not sure if there is or not but are there any ways to make electric propulsion that you know of? or anyone else if they read this?
 
Fuels in general contain more energy the greater their mass. For ex. Diesel vs petrol.
In this case the use of kerosene and LOX is the simplest. There are other oxidisers available, for ex. hydrogen peroxide.
Goddard used gasoline and LOX. Russians and Chinese have used kero and LOX as did the Saturn V.
 
BigFly said:
hmm that's interesting what the specific impulse for that mixture just wondering? also I am not sure if there is or not but are there any ways to make electric propulsion that you know of? or anyone else if they read this?


http://nmp.nasa.gov/ds1/tech/ionpropfaq.html" is the only way that I know of other than an electric powered prop or turbine.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Specific impulse for bi-chemical liquid fuels is around 450s.

specific impulse measured in time is 453 seconds, or, equivalently, an effective exhaust velocity of 4500 m/s, for the Space Shuttle Main Engines when operating in vacuum.
 

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