Chicken or Egg? Gravity & Spacetime

[DWEdmondson]

Is gravity the effect of the curvature of spacetime or does gravity effect the curvature of spacetime?

 

[jedishrfu]

Neither, Prof Wheeler expressed it eloquently with his quote:

Spacetime tells matter how to move; matter tells spacetime how to curve.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Archibald_Wheeler

 

[DrGreg]

Curvature of spacetime is gravity.

 

[DWEdmondson]

Curvature of spacetime is gravity.

Thank you. I have read that "Gravity is most accurately described by the general theory of relativity (proposed by Albert Einstein in 1915) which describes gravity, not as a force, but as a consequence of the curvature of spacetime caused by the uneven distribution of mass/energy." Is this then entropy also?

 

[DWEdmondson]

Neither, Prof Wheeler expressed it eloquently with his quote:

Spacetime tells matter how to move; matter tells spacetime how to curve.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Archibald_Wheeler

Thank you for that link.
Prof. Wheeler is indeed an eloquent writer unlike Albert Einstein who I find a tad equivocal. I find Alberts remarks a little confusing at times.

 

[Orodruin]

I have read that

This really does not help the discussion along unless you specify where you read it.

 

[DWEdmondson]

This really does not help the discussion along unless you specify where you read it.

Sorry my source is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity

 

[Orodruin]

Well, Wikipedia is not the most accurate of sources, in particular on technical subjects. You should keep this in mind when reading it.

 

[DWEdmondson]

Well, Wikipedia is not the most accurate of sources, in particular on technical subjects. You should keep this in mind when reading it.

So I am left with "Gravity IS the curvature of spacetime" right? Are there any links to the description of gravity in layman terms that does not involve complicated mathematics? I am starting to think that even Einstein has left the door open on this topic and I am wondering why we don't have a description for how gravity works at the quantum level.

 

[Ibix]

I quite enjoyed bcrowell's "Relativity for Poets", free to download from lightandmatter.com. Note that any non-mathematical description will necessarily be extremely vague. I don't think there's any non-mathematical way to describe the implications of a second order non linear differential tensor equation that is remotely precise.

We don't have a theory of quantum gravity because it turns out to be hard to shoot blind, and our experiments aren't yet anywhere near sensitive enough to provide any illumination.

 

[DWEdmondson]

I quite enjoyed bcrowell's "Relativity for Poets", free to download from lightandmatter.com. Note that any non-mathematical description will necessarily be extremely vague. I don't think there's any non-mathematical way to describe the implications of a second order non linear differential tensor equation that is remotely precise.

We don't have a theory of quantum gravity because it turns out to be hard to shoot blind, and our experiments aren't yet anywhere near sensitive enough to provide any illumination.

"Relativity for Poets" is gold thanks! Learn and understand the equivalence principle first, then understand what is actually meant by curvature of spacetime before asking silly questions. Thanks once again.