News Chinese "weather" balloon shoot-down over US

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The Chinese balloon was shot down by an F-22 Raptor using an AIM-9X missile, raising questions about the missile's suitability for targeting a balloon. The U.S. claims to have gathered valuable information about the balloon's technology, despite concerns about potential espionage. The decision to shoot it down over water rather than land was likely influenced by recovery challenges and the risk of civilian casualties. The incident has sparked discussions about the implications for U.S.-China relations and the balloon's potential payload. Overall, the event highlights ongoing tensions and the complexities of military engagement with aerial surveillance devices.
  • #151
Foxy Loxy said "A piece of it just hit me on the head!"

🐔
 
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  • #152
Rive said:
Reminds me of the old joke about peeing in the swimming pool.
You know, even if it's a bit fuzzy thing, doing it from the jump board is kind of different...
Remember Lockheed U-2 spy plane ? I guess Soviets found a way at that time. They've used urine-indicator dye and hence located the perpetrator (wee-wee master) as well as being able to measure the exact height of the jump board. And what's with that (almost) everyday violation of "one China" principle ? Somebody is obviously violating the airspace of China on a daily basis 😂
 
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  • #153
Frabjous said:
A lot of bad can be justified with this class of argument.
I'm not justifying anything. I'm just saying it's a fact 😁
 
  • #154
boneh3ad said:
They already released the preliminary findings. Just like they thought, tons of SIGINT equipment for measuring and triangulating signals. A propeller with a rudder. It's a spy balloon.
If you say so. And if the US gov says so 🤡
 
  • #155
discoversci said:
If you say so. And if the US gov says so 🤡
(last reminder to avoid heading too much into politics, or this thread will be done. Thank you)
 
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  • #158
It's hard not to read into the current events without putting it into the context of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, and the US pledge to enter into a direct war with China to defend Taiwan if necessary. Just prior to the balloon incident, a memo leaked from a US 4 star general, saying that he predicts the US and China will be at war by 2025 for these reasons.

In this context, the balloon incident can be a signal. By flying a blatantly visible spy balloon over the US nuclear missile silos, it sends the message that China is preparing, or prepared, to engage the US in a nuclear war if it comes to it. By showing they are serious about this possibility, it can potentially help deter the US from taking the risk to defend Taiwan.
 
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  • #159
berkeman said:
It was at 40,000 feet, so deemed a threat to civilian aircraft...
Since my daughter is a pilot, I'm glad they shot the damned thing down.
 
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  • #160

'It was a success': White House says a second 'high altitude object' shot down over Alaska​

WASHINGTON — The U.S. shot down an unidentified object Friday over frozen waters near Alaska at the order of President Joe Biden, less than one week after shooting down a Chinese spy balloon off the East Coast.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...tude-object-shot-own-over-alaska/11229937002/

This balloon is thought to have originated at little Cindy Davis's birthday party. Cindy and her friends have no comment so far.
 
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  • #161
(Note: a few posts that were over the line of "too political" have been deleted.)
 
  • #162
There are many great rivalries in aviation...
F4U vs A6M
Bf-109 vs Spitfire
MiG-15 vs F-86
MiG-21 vs F-4
F-15 vs Su-27
and at last the F-22 vs Balloons
 
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  • #163
Ivan Seeking said:
This balloon is thought to have originated at little Cindy Davis's birthday party. Cindy and her friends have no comment so far.
Just an update -- Cindy's dad was wearing a parachute and was able to bail out as the F22s approached...
lawn-chair-larry_copycat.jpg

https://tilln.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/lawn-chair-larry_copycat.jpg
 
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  • #166
Jarvis323 said:
In this context, the balloon incident can be a signal. By flying a blatantly visible spy balloon over the US nuclear missile silos, it sends the message that China is preparing, or prepared, to engage the US in a nuclear war if it comes to it. By showing they are serious about this possibility, it can potentially help deter the US from taking the risk to defend Taiwan.
That was my point earlier. It may seem harmless enough, but it could be a prelude to nuclear war. They are apparently probing some of our most sensitive nuclear installations.

But then we lived on the brink of nuclear annihilation on and off for 40 years during the cold war. So, just another day on the farm. Mutually assured destruction has always saved the day so far!
 
  • #167
Ivan Seeking said:
LOL! I remember the original! And yes, it really did happen - Lawn-chair Larry. I listened to live coverage as he got too close to an airport.
I believe he shot his own balloons too.
 
  • #168
BillTre said:
I believe he shot his own balloons too.
IIRC, he dropped his BB gun. :oops: But he did come down eventually.
 
  • #169
Ivan Seeking said:
IIRC, he dropped his BB gun.
Doh!
 
  • #170
The government and media are officially calling the second object, unidentified, and not definitively a balloon. And of course, this is already being cited as one of those UAPs [UFOs] the government was talking about.

NOPE! Don't be fooled by the nonsense! Balloons were specifically identified along with other "sky clutter"

1676075663348.png


https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Unclassified-2022-Annual-Report-UAP.pdf#:~:text=Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) reporting is increasing, enabling,provided in the classified version of this report.

It is the other 171 unidentified objects where some have demonstrated "unusual flight characteristics or performance capabilities", as cited in the last sentence, that get interesting.
 
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  • #171
Ivan Seeking said:
The government and media are officially calling the second object, unidentified, and not definitively a balloon. And of course, this is already being cited as one of those UAPs [UFOs] the government was talking about.

At some point, we may start to see deniable (i.e. no distinguishing features) decoy balloons designed to get governments to waste their resources tracking and shooting them.
 
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  • #172
You'll know we've come full circle when the balloons go a full circle and we start shooting down our own decoys.
 
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  • #173
I must somehow think of Nena.
 
  • #174
The comedians seem surprisingly slow. I would have expected to see various cartoons involving Winnie the Pooh hanging from a balloon... :oldbiggrin:
 
  • #175
strangerep said:
The comedians seem surprisingly slow. I would have expected to see various cartoons involving Winnie the Pooh hanging from a balloon... :oldbiggrin:
FoFIUPzXkAMPrqP.jpg


I have seen a couple of Chinese versions of the incident but that point of view would get banned as politics.
 
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  • #176
fresh_42 said:
I must somehow think of Nena.
Post #141. German with English subtitles.
 
  • #177
Swamp Thing said:
At some point, we may start to see deniable (i.e. no distinguishing features) decoy balloons designed to get governments to waste their resources tracking and shooting them.

That was a big concern back in the 50s and 60s. The fear was that the Soviets would send many dummy crafts to overwhelm the defense systems. And we were worried about these things causing a panic.

Also, the Brookings Report (1960) concluded that belief in alien life could be severely disruptive to society. So that was a problem as well as the UFO craze was intimately connected to other cold war concerns.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookings_Report
 
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  • #178
NORAD is tracking more objects through the Northern US and Canada, that could be additional spy balloons.
 
  • #179
Ivan Seeking said:
NORAD is tracking more objects through the Northern US and Canada, that could be additional spy balloons.
Since this looks like it is going to be a regular occurance, they now have 10.5 months to develop the technology to not accidentally shoot down Santa.
 
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  • #182
One was shot down over Canada - ordered by Trudeau

Earlier they reported there are "objects". But right now, they are only talking about the one.

Haha, there are some reports from pilots that suggest a bit of a mystery - as if one of these might have been something else. That is why they are refraining from calling the 2nd object yesterday, a balloon. We don't know what it was yet - perhaps a drone. There are reports that the avionics on one of more planes sent to identify the object, experienced interference.

Twenty-six drones and similar objects, and 163 balloons or balloon-like objects were identified in the 2022 UAP report from the DNI.
 
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  • #183
Unidentified object" shot down over Canada, Trudeau says
An "unidentified object" which "violated "Canadian airspace" was shot down over Canada Saturday, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau confirmed.

The object was shot down by a U.S. military F-22 over the Yukon, Trudeau said.

A U.S. official previously confirmed to CBS News Saturday that the object was detected by North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) and appeared to be a "high-altitude balloon."

Trudeau tweeted that "Canadian and U.S. aircraft were scrambled" after he "ordered the take down" of the object by NORAD. [continued]
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/unidentified-object-shot-down-over-canada-trudeau-says/
 
  • #184
Ivan Seeking said:
'It was a success': White House says a second 'high altitude object' shot down over Alaska
And they just keep coming. :oldcry:
 
  • #185
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  • #186
Hello, what's all this now?
 
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  • #189
Maybe it was invisible. :nb)

uD3wECzLTfNXC2sANYexgd-970-80.jpg
 
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  • #190
Whoops!

U.S. military shoots down unidentified object over Lake Huron​

WASHINGTON — The U.S. military shot down an unidentified object over Lake Huron Sunday, a congressional source briefed on the matter and two U.S. officials told NBC News — the fourth flying object in less than two weeks to be downed over North American airspace
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...shot-unidentified-object-lake-huron-rcna70289
 
  • #191
My new theory is the US tipped its hand with its new detection capability with the balloon, so China sent a bunch of small drones over to see which ones the US could detect.
 
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  • #192
Office_Shredder said:
My new theory is the US tipped its hand with its new detection capability with the balloon, so China sent a bunch of small drones over to see which ones the US could detect.
But they haven't mentioned anything to suggest that the other objects came from China. It's just the timing that makes it suspicious.

At the same time, they are getting a lot of flak about letting the balloon fly over the airspace, and pressure to change to a shoot first ask questions later policy. So it wouldn't be too surprising if more objects would be shot down now as part of a crack down.

It could be a little of both.
 
  • #193
Jarvis323 said:
But they haven't mentioned anything to suggest that the other objects came from China. It's just the timing that makes it suspicious.

At the same time, they are getting a lot of flak about letting the balloon fly over the airspace, and pressure to change to a shoot first ask questions later policy. So it wouldn't be too surprising if more objects would be shot down now as part of a crack down.

It could be a little of both.
Does anyone want to make another lawn-chair Larry flight?
 
  • #194
Ivan Seeking said:
Does anyone want to make another lawn-chair Larry flight?
Seems like kind of dangerous prank to try right now, IMO...
 
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  • #195
berkeman said:
Seems like kind of dangerous prank to try right now, IMO...
Yup! Good way to get killed; even more so than normally.
 
  • #196
Ivan Seeking said:
Yup! Good way to get killed; even more so than normally.
Yes, but how to get to 40,000 ft?
 
  • #197
fresh_42 said:
Yes, but how to get to 40,000 ft?

Haha, yes, I think Larry only made it to about 16,000, but he did interfere with air traffic.

Imagine having an F-22 flyby while hanging at 16,000 feet on a lawn chair. I've honestly never imagined that before.
 
  • #198
Kind of like Yeager deer hunting in his fighter at Nellis(?) -- put the cannon on single shot each pass...
 
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