Choosing different axes in the same system

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving two masses, M_1 and M_2, and the implications of choosing different coordinate axes for analyzing the system. Participants are exploring the effects of these choices on the calculated tension in the system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand the differences in results obtained by using different axes for M_1 and M_2. They question the rationale behind the choice of positive direction in the solution guide. Other participants raise questions about the implications of equal masses on tension and seek clarification on the original poster's assumptions and descriptions.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, with some offering insights into the implications of mass equality on tension. There is a request for further clarification on the free body diagram (FBD) from the original poster, indicating a productive direction in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of a potential edge case when M_1 equals M_2, which raises questions about the behavior of tension in the system. The original poster's description of their free body diagram is noted as ambiguous, which may affect the clarity of the discussion.

Carpetfizz
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Homework Statement



Just doing some practice problems from past finals and I needed some help on this one. Sorry if my question doesn't exactly fit the template.

WlmxL.png


2) Relevant Equations / Information

For part a) and for M_1, I drew the axes such that the x-axis points to the top right, in the direction of motion of M_1, and the y-axes points up perpendicular to it. For M_2 I drew the axes such that the x-axis points to the bottom right and the y-axis points up perpendicular to it.

This is the answer the solution guide provided

Heuxj.png


The difference is that my axes for M_1 was flipped such that the x-axis pointed in the opposite direction to what is presented in the solution.

I'm curious as to why they chose to make the direction opposite to M_1's motion positive.

3) Attempt at Solution

I tried doing it both ways and it yielded two different answers

1. The way in the answer sheet:

$$T = \frac{M_1M_2g(\mu_1cos(\phi)+sin(\phi)+sin(\theta)}{(M_1+M_2)}$$

2. The way with the different axis:

$$T = \frac{M_1M_2g(\mu_1cos(\phi)+sin(\phi)+sin(\theta)}{(M_1-M_2)}$$

I'm not exactly sure how switching the axes gives the right answer or what the rationale behind doing that is. Any advice would be much appreciated.
 
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Forget the math and look at it as a physicist: would the tension go to infinity if the two masses go to the same ##M## ?
 
Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. Where in my question does it imply the two masses go to the same M and what does that mean?
 
Carpetfizz said:
Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. Where in my question does it imply the two masses go to the same M and what does that mean?
$$T = \frac{M_1M_2g(\mu_1cos(\phi)+sin(\phi)+sin(\theta)}{(M_1-M_2)} = \infty$$ if $$M_1 = M_2$$
 
Okay that makes sense. I feel like you wouldn't get the quantity (M1-M2) unless you solved for T all the way through. Is there any way you can account for this edge case before you solve the problem?
 
Do the exercise for the case M1 = M2 first...
 
Carpetfizz said:
Okay that makes sense. I feel like you wouldn't get the quantity (M1-M2) unless you solved for T all the way through. Is there any way you can account for this edge case before you solve the problem?
The FBD in book is correct.
I can't tell your mistake because I have not seen your FBD and the description you provided is ambiguous.
Can you please provide your FBD.
 

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