CHSH Bell inequality derivation

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    Bell Chsh Inequality
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the Clauser, Horne, Shimony, and Holt (CHSH) derivation of Bell's inequality, particularly its application to polarization correlations observed in experiments with entangled photons. Participants express frustration with the clarity of the original paper and seek to understand specific variables and concepts presented in the derivation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion regarding the definitions and roles of variables a', b', and c in the CHSH derivation.
  • One participant questions whether the joint probability P(b, b') can be measured in experiments to identify inefficiencies related to b'.
  • Another participant suggests that the efficiencies mentioned in the paper likely refer to "photoelectric efficiencies" related to photon detection technology.
  • There is a mention of the Wikipedia article indicating that the original derivation is difficult to follow, which aligns with participants' experiences of the paper being obtuse.
  • Some participants note that there are better explanations of the CHSH inequality available in other resources, such as textbooks.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the original paper is difficult to understand and lacks clear definitions for all variables. However, there is no consensus on the specific meanings of the variables or the implications of the measurement efficiencies discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the clarity of the original paper, particularly regarding variable definitions and the context of measurement efficiencies. There is also a noted dependence on the reader's familiarity with the subject matter.

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TL;DR
Does the CHSH derivation of Bell's inequality make sense?
Has anyone else tried to make sense of the Clauser, Horne, Shimony, Holt derivation of Bell's inequality (Physics. Rev. Left. 23, 15, 1969)?
The CHSH version is said to be a more practical application of Bell's inequality, which could be used to describe the polarization correlations that Aspect observed in his famous experiment. I'm currently frustrated trying to make good sense of it.

There are two polarizers on each side of the calcium atom which emits two entangled photons, one to each side. Each photon is randomly directed to one or the other of the polarizers by a water wave transducer. Depending on which way each photon goes CHSH write the result as A(a) = +- 1 on one side, and B(b) = +- 1 on the other side. They include in their derivation the variables a' and b' which I suppose are particular values of a and b. I haven't yet make sense of the b' which they say somehow specifies the efficiency of the measurement process, since the joint probability of b and b', P(b, b') is very close to 1. Can one measure the joint probability for b and b' in the experiment and discover which values of b' lead to inefficiency? And, what is their variable, c? They don't define it do they? Is it another particular value for either a, or b, or for both a and b at some point?

Does someone else understand this derivation better than I do?

Thanks.
 
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d_bar_x said:
TL;DR Summary: Does the CHSH derivation of Bell's inequality make sense?

Has anyone else tried to make sense of the Clauser, Horne, Shimony, Holt derivation of Bell's inequality (Physics. Rev. Left. 23, 15, 1969)?
The CHSH version is said to be a more practical application of Bell's inequality, which could be used to describe the polarization correlations that Aspect observed in his famous experiment. I'm currently frustrated trying to make good sense of it.

There are two polarizers on each side of the calcium atom which emits two entangled photons, one to each side. Each photon is randomly directed to one or the other of the polarizers by a water wave transducer. Depending on which way each photon goes CHSH write the result as A(a) = +- 1 on one side, and B(b) = +- 1 on the other side. They include in their derivation the variables a' and b' which I suppose are particular values of a and b. I haven't yet make sense of the b' which they say somehow specifies the efficiency of the measurement process, since the joint probability of b and b', P(b, b') is very close to 1. Can one measure the joint probability for b and b' in the experiment and discover which values of b' lead to inefficiency? And, what is their variable, c? They don't define it do they? Is it another particular value for either a, or b, or for both a and b at some point?

Does someone else understand this derivation better than I do?

Thanks.
Are you reading this from the original paper? They should have clearly defined their variables. Have you tried any other explanation of the CHSH, they usually define their variables too.
 
I quickly read the paper and the only talk about efficiencies has to do with "photoelectric efficiencies," which I'm inclined to believe is referring to the technology for detecting photons; hence their redefining A and B to refer to emergence/non-emergence from a filter.
 
d_bar_x said:
Has anyone else tried to make sense of the Clauser, Horne, Shimony, Holt derivation of Bell's inequality (Physics. Rev. Left. 23, 15, 1969)?
The Wikipedia article on the CHSH inequality says "The original 1969 derivation will not be given here since it is not easy to follow....":smile:
 
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