Classical and Spanish Guitar Performances

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The discussion centers around a comparison between classical guitar music and electronic genres like techno. Participants share various links to classical guitar performances, expressing appreciation for artists such as Li Jie and highlighting the beauty and skill involved in classical music. The conversation shifts to a debate about the artistic merit of electronic music, with some arguing that it lacks the depth and talent required for classical compositions. Others counter that electronic music is a legitimate art form, capable of complexity and innovation, and should not be dismissed. The debate touches on the evolution of music, the role of technology in composition, and the subjective nature of musical taste. Ultimately, there is a division between those who uphold classical music as the pinnacle of artistic achievement and those who advocate for the recognition of electronic music's creative potential.
  • #31
So tell me, why are there no world famous schools of techno?

Face it, classical music is the esablished canon.
 
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  • #32
There are many *schools* and teachers teaching how to use machines to make music, ask anyone who is studying music and they will tell you!

There probably isn't any world famous schools because people have not been using them for eons to make music. Computers have really only been accessible for the masses for at tops 15 years. Its as I have already stated a new artform. When Picaso was first making extraordinary masterpieces of abstract art there went any *world famous schools* teaching abstract art were there?

There is also no relationship between the quality of a music style and the amount of "world famous schools"
 
  • #33
Face it, classical music is the esablished canon.

I certainly am not going to take your word for it, since you are unable to even form a decent argument as to why it is.
 
  • #34
These people are musical genius as much as the classical composers were.

Noooooooooooo way. You are comparing people like mozart, to stuff like this:

[MEDIA=youtube]UXGpVcYnIsA[/MEDIA]&mode=related&search=[/URL]

?



Here is some real music...

[PLAIN]http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?ei=UTF-8&p=bach&b=9&oid=54349377e52d8a2a&rurl=www.bsu.edu&vdone=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fvideo%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dbach

http://www.maggini.org/video/mozart_1.mov
 
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  • #35
That was a dig at your Guitar nonsence. If you looked at the list I cited:

Aphex Twin (who was composing and being published at 12!)
Mike Oldfield
Vangelis Papathanassiou,
Squarepusher:

No doubt you don't even know who these people are, but anyway. That was DJ Ronaldo from Underground resistance a Techno dance music outfit from Detroit. And anyway the use of melody and drum beats is very cleverly done it that piece IMHO, and already many mainstream popular music pieces have sampled it. The message is in the medium on that one, but I don't expect you to get that..
 
  • #36
Here is quiet an "out there" idea of what it actualy consitutes to make music with machines:

http://www.warprecords.com/artists/news.php?offset=0&ti_id=789&filter=sqp

"Collaborating with machines" by Tom Jenkinson.

The old preconceptions of machines (ie: drum machines, samplers, software) as inhibitive to "genuine" creativity/ "soulless" etc. are now quickly evaporating. The machine facilitates creativity, yes, but a specific kind of creativity that has undermined the idea of a composer who is master of and indifferent to his tools - the machine has begun to participate. Any die-hard instumentalists that still struggle to retain their notion of human sovereignty are exemplifying a peculiarly (western) human stupidity - resistance to the inevitable. What is also clear, though certainly undesirable by any retaining an anthropocentric view of composition is that
this process proceeds regardless of any ideal point of human-machine collaboration (ie one where the human retains any degree of importance.) One might say that music is imploding in preparation for a time when there is no longer any need for it.

Tom Jenkinson. AKA Squarepusher

This guy is extremely established and is very well respect artist BTW
 
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  • #37
Here is some real music...

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?ei...F-8%26p%3Dbach

http://www.maggini.org/video/mozart_1.mov
Yeap its also very good
 
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  • #38
Look, despite my saying techno is crap...it's not all that bad :-p

Butttt, it is NOT at the level of classical music, nor will it ever be. I do not think anything will ever be at the classical music level, as nothing will ever be renaissance art. That was the peak. That's where you will find the "masters."
 
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  • #39
I've played classical guitar and piano as well as mixed an electronic album (both with MTV Music Generator and Reason)

I'd have to say that judging music quality by its genre is going to close a lot of doors to interesting musical ideas.

There are some musical configurations that are impossible to play (especially on a guitar, where you can only hit six notes at once) that you can express by assigning notes to a meter. Knowledge of musical mechanics is necisary unless you're just ripping off samples, but I've heard some ingenious techno music.

To defend classical music in the same post as I'm defending techno music, a computer simply cannot match the "soul" that goes into bends, vibratos, sticatto, and bowing techniques.
 
  • #40
I like Classical Music as well, I have over a gig of the stuff on my HD. However I disagree that it was the peak, it was a stepping stone albeit a very important one. Music is an Artform, continually being refined and experimented with, there is no good or bad music, there is just music. Some people like to listen to Drill and Bass extreme and almost maddening drum patterns, some people like to listen to mathematically beautiful melodies and some like the sound of natural ambiance.

There is nothing to gage the level of an artform apart from ones own perception
 
  • #41
More good stuff...


http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?ei=UTF-8&p=bach&b=45&oid=7cad3fbbd9c6739e&rurl=www.ducalemusic.it&vdone=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.yahoo.com%2Fvideo%2Fsearch%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dbach%26b%3D41
 
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  • #42
To defend classical music in the same post as I'm defending techno music, a computer simply cannot match the "soul" that goes into bends, vibratos, sticatto, and bowing techniques.

Ahh but the soul is a projection of the artist not the tool he is using.

But... in the same breath it could be argued that the machine will not allow the artist to become soulful, the tool is to a degree bending the will of the wielder of the tool, the message is not only in the music but in the way it was conceived from the medium :wink:
 
  • #43
Electronic music is both despised and abused because of its shallow learning cruve. But this doesn't make it inferior in any way. Although a large percent is just "elevator music," there is some good stuff out there. For starters, look into Aphex twin, as Anttech has suggested. Richard D. James Album? Many friends of mine (of whom some are musicians) and I manage to listen to both; I think our generation is beginning to lose the myopia.

I think cyrus is reading too much into the sounds themselves instead of the rhythm, composition, and emotion.
 
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  • #44
I am listening to bach: brandenburg no.3...sorry guys. Techno does not come close to this, what skill! A computer can never imitate this.

Ahh but the soul is a projection of the artist not the tool he is using.

projection of the artist through his instrument. I disagree with that statement.
 
  • #45
there is some good stuff out there. For starters, look into Aphex twin, as Anttech has suggested.Richard D. James Album?
I have his discography apart from a couple of exceptions :) Richard D James album is a great one
 
  • #47
It says I am not 18, I can't view it :frown:
 
  • #48
Probably better anyway :)
 
  • #50
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8462728218872931196&q=paganini&hl=en

Damn woman...the ladies are kicking ass on paganini.

Ok, time to change woman to women...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3492230101909108216&q=paganini&hl=en
 
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  • #51
A couple of nice acoustic pieces by Canadian guitarist Erik Mongrain:
[MEDIA=youtube]AbndgwfG22k[/MEDIA][/URL]
[PLAIN][MEDIA=youtube]aUQzXQhAgvw[/MEDIA][/URL]

-GeoMike-
 
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  • #52
Setar

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8360162270094616519&q=setar

Santoor

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?ei=UTF-8&p=santoor&b=10&oid=3fccfc76e93b2866&rurl=www.santur.com&vdone=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.yahoo.com%2Fvideo%2Fsearch%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dsantoor%26b%3D11

Iranian instruments.
 
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  • #53
i have to side with cyrus here also. i listen to prodigy, daft punk, chemical brothers, wip3out xl soundtrack etc from time to time but i have to say it will never be on the same level as "classical" music (music from the renaissance, baroque, classical, romantic etc eras). giovanni palestrina's pope marcellus mass allegedly (so the urban legend goes) saved church music from the draconian restrictions of the council of trent. the council of trent decided to ban all church music except 'plainchant' since it was becoming more & more difficult to understand the texts. palestrina wrote this mass & dedicated it to the pope at the time (marcellus) & as the story goes it was so perfect it got the vatican to change their minds. i have "some" reservations that a techno artist could single-handedly do anything like that today, or at least gain a reputation like palestrina had in the late 1500s. (of course it's just an urban legend, but highly plausible if one hears the music :-p )
 
  • #54
bouzouki- Greek

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?p=bouzouki&prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&b=16&oid=4c44586818383ca2&rurl=www.bouzoukidvd.com&vdone=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.yahoo.com%2Fvideo%2Fsearch%3Fp%3Dbouzouki%26prssweb%3DSearch%26ei%3DUTF-8%26b%3D11

http://www.folkofthewood.com/Media/jnsnzookma4005.mov

This guy sucks though, you should hear my friend John play. Sounds very similar to ME music.

This guy is closer in style, but still sucks compared to John.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zJQkKdUDaZg

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MvYGkMLVfnY

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WcV46gUVkNQ

It's a great instrument... magnificent.
 
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  • #55
During my visit at MIT, I walked by someone playing some Bach on the piano fantastically. It's amazing watching/listening to someone play so well. Especially from such a close distance.
 
  • #56
Regular ole guitar...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=492422280766772379&q=classical+guitar
 
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  • #57
Yes Bozaki *is* the most complex string compositions there is. Dancing to it is also fun, I tend to not throw flowers about tho :-p

i have to side with cyrus here also. i listen to prodigy, daft punk, chemical brothers, wip3out xl soundtrack etc from time to time but i have to say it will never be on the same level as "classical" music (music from the renaissance, baroque, classical, romantic etc eras).
Look before we go down this road again, you are going to have to define what it is that you mean by "level" of Music is. As I stated before, there is no such thing as Bad or Good music It just is music... Why is this so difficult to understand?
 
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  • #58
cyrusabdollahi said:
Regular ole guitar...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=492422280766772379&q=classical+guitar
That piece is fun to play!
 
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  • #59
BTW if you ever want to listen to *soulful* electronic music listen to "Kaotic Harmony" By Derrick May on the transmat label released in 1993 and timeless Also Nude Photo which is accredited to have kicked off the whole Electronic *dance* movement in Europe, it never caught on in the states, although the was born in the ghetos of Detriot:

"I believe that you're in control of your own destiny. I believe that I chose to do songs like "Nude Photo", "Strings Of Life", "It Is What It Is". I really didn't care about making the charts or being a top 40 artist at any point in my life and I still don't. I couldn't give a **** about that."

Many years ago the future began: In 1987 a shrinkwrapped record called "Nude Photo" appeared on the shelves of a few specialist dance shops in Europe and helped kickstart a musical revolution. The label featured a drawing of what looked like a second world-war pilot. Or was it futuristic time-slip rider? The hand written details read Rythim Is Rythim, the word deliberately mispelt, given a fresh twist. The music sounded outer-worldly.

Sub-aquatic basslines raced with hi-hats constructed from welding sparks. It was like listening to liquid electricity. But the most outstanding feature of "Nude Photo" and the subsequent music which it's author would produce, was that it was much, much more than just machine-driven sounds. This music was absolutely drenched in emotion. This was the sound of someone's soul.
http://www.jahsonic.com/DerrickMay.html
 
  • #60
Squarepusher live...

[MEDIA=youtube]la5NDzmEOFk[/MEDIA][/URL]
[PLAIN][MEDIA=youtube]eEw9kYDIQvs[/MEDIA][/URL]

;)
 
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