Clean Trains in Japan & Wind Powered Cars

[baywax]

I believe this has just been tested (again) yesterday (Sept 17th/07)

World’s first train powered by a fuel cell

Fuel cell technology could one day be used in existing rail systems.

A pilot test run of the world’s first railway vehicle powered by a fuel cell has successfully taken place in Japan.

The Railway Technical Research Institute (RTRI) announced that their 100kW fuel cell has been tested following two years of development.

This latest inspection follows previous trials of a smaller 30kW rail system in 2003.

Current tests aim to determine the output characteristics and load-following capacity of the new fuel cell system, so that the possible commercialisation of fuel cell-powered trains can be considered, RTRI said.

RTRI pioneered the development of a fuel cell powered railway in 2001, as part of an R&D project for ‘environmentally friendly railways’.

The main goals for the project were to reduce noise and gas emissions, and to construct train systems which do not rely on power feeding facilities.

The result is a product of combining fuel cells, a high-pressurised hydrogen tank, and an inverter, which is a ‘variable frequency power conversion device.’

Fine tuning before it can be introduced into existing rail systems

RTRI engineers are now testing the system to confirm the output characteristics and load-following capacity of the fuel cell in order to pursue the possible introduction of fuel cell systems into train operations.

The Japanese company is aware that there are problems of cost reduction, increasing the output capacity and downsizing before the product is ready to assimilate into existing commercial railway facilities.

However, the latest tests take the technology a step closer to the introduction of the fuel cell system into our day-to-day rail systems.

Part of the development of the fuel cell has been supported by the subsidy of the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport of Japan.

From: http://www.scenta.co.uk/scenta/news...ets.content_view_1&search_text1=&startrow1=16
The electric car just got a boost from the power generated by its own wind...!

Sunday, September 16, 2007

Mitsubishi Motors's Electric Car Can Produce Wind Power
Tokyo, Sept 7, 2007 (Jiji Press) - Mitsubishi Motors Corp. <7211> on Friday unveiled a concept electric vehicle model that makes use of both solar and wind power, for exhibiting at the Tokyo Motor Show this autumn.

The i MiEV Sport model features a high-performance rechargeable battery and a body made of aluminum to keep down the weight.

With one charge of electricity, the model has a range of 200 kilometers, 25 pct more than the automaker's i MiEV minivehicle-type electric vehicle model. The maximum speed was increased to 180 kilometers per hour from 130 kilometers per hour.

The concept electric car has a solar cell panel attached to the roof so that it can accumulate electricity whenever sunlight is present. It is also equipped with a fan in the front air intake system, to enable wind power generation.

Although solar and wind power are generated only as supplementary energy sources, these features are designed to highlight Mitsubishi's environmental focus and efficient energy use, according to the company.

The Tokyo Motor Show will open on Oct. 26 at Makuhari Messe in Chiba Prefecture, east of Tokyo, and run through Nov. 11.

Article from JCNNetwork.[/quote]

http://www.japancorp.net/Article.Asp?Art_ID=15355

 

[mgb_phys]

A fuel cell powered train sounds rather pointless. A hydrogen fuel cell is just a battery - you make the hydrogen by splitting water using electricity you then get electricity back when you mix the water and oxygen again.
I can't see how this improves over an overhead wire!

As for a fan mounted on the fornt of a car being used as a windmill to power a car - I assume that this was written by Mitsubishi's advertising agency not their engineers.

 

[baywax]

A fuel cell powered train sounds rather pointless. A hydrogen fuel cell is just a battery - you make the hydrogen by splitting water using electricity you then get electricity back when you mix the water and oxygen again.
I can't see how this improves over an overhead wire!

As for a fan mounted on the fornt of a car being used as a windmill to power a car - I assume that this was written by Mitsubishi's advertising agency not their engineers.

I wouldn't really know but does this help

from the above quote:

The result is a product of combining fuel cells, a high-pressurised hydrogen tank, and an inverter, which is a ‘variable frequency power conversion device.’

Certainly there is energy involved in spliting hydrogen from water... or from any chemical... but, there are enormous amounts of energy involved in getting oil out of the ground... and the toxicity of oil demands more energy in clean-up, refinements, production, transportation and hosptial bills for people affected by the resultant fumes... so, what's your beef again?

 

[mgb_phys]

Certainly there is energy involved in spliting hydrogen from water... or from any chemical... but, there are enormous amounts of energy involved in getting oil out of the ground... and the toxicity of oil demands more energy in clean-up, refinements, production, transportation and hosptial bills for people affected by the resultant fumes... so, what's your beef again?

Because you use exactly the same type of electricity to turn the water into hydrogen as you would just send over wires to the train.
the only difference is that while the wires are highly efficent and mean you don't have to carry any fuel around the fuel cell is very inefficent and means you have to carry tons of hydrogen/oxygen and pressure cylinders around with you.

Fuel cells almost make sense in cars as a high power battery - but for something with an exisitng power distribution infrastrure they don't.

 

[baywax]

Because you use exactly the same type of electricity to turn the water into hydrogen as you would just send over wires to the train.
the only difference is that while the wires are highly efficent and mean you don't have to carry any fuel around the fuel cell is very inefficent and means you have to carry tons of hydrogen/oxygen and pressure cylinders around with you.

Fuel cells almost make sense in cars as a high power battery - but for something with an exisitng power distribution infrastrure they don't.

Ahh, I see what you mean. I'd like to know if they've done a cost efficiency analysis on both methods. There's maintainence on the wire system and there's a blow to the efficiency of the fuel cell power source because of carrying its weight. Centralized power is efficient because the techs can be concentrated in one station whereas techs would have to be dispatched to take care of trouble shooting each fuel cell on each train as well.

However, the system employs the old diesel engines along with the trolley type power supply and I think they're making a statement regarding "greenness" over actually being efficient.

If we look at the evolution of locomotion we will find that the initial stages of any type of power driven "cart" were over produced and fairly inefficient to begin with. Have you seen the electric car Henry Ford's wife used to drive... its the size of a small locomotive... I think Jay Leno owns it now.

 

[baywax]

Is there any viability to this ad that has been magically attracted to this thread?

http://www.wam-a-bam.com/hydrockickbank.html?hop=lynnmi&gclid=CNaY_4WXzo4CFQdGYAodO1eMhA

 

[Math Jeans]

At this rate, gas stations are going to have outlets outside.