Coefficient of friction from a graph

Click For Summary
Finding the coefficient of friction solely from a velocity-time or acceleration-time graph is not feasible without additional information, such as the angle of the ramp. The discussions highlight that even with constant acceleration, multiple combinations of ramp angles and coefficients of friction can yield identical graphs. The relationship between friction, normal force, and gravitational components is complex, leading to the conclusion that two variables (angle and coefficient) require two equations for resolution. Therefore, without knowing the ramp's inclination, one cannot accurately determine the coefficient of friction. Ultimately, the acceleration experienced by the block does not uniquely define the frictional characteristics involved.
nehcrow
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Is it possible to find the coefficient of friction just by looking at a graph?
A velocity-time or acceleration-time graph which models a particle going up a ramp and down a ramp.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You would need at least some kind of additional information.

Even if there are no external forces but gravity on the block, and your acceleration-time graph is just a constant you would still be unable to find the coefficient of friction without at least knowing the angle the ramp makes with the horizontal.
 
0ddbio said:
You would need at least some kind of additional information.

No that's not right

0ddbio said:
Even if there are no external forces but gravity on the block, and your acceleration-time graph is just a constant you would still be unable to find the coefficient of friction without at least knowing the angle the ramp makes with the horizontal.

You do not know inclination as well. So you have got two equations and two variables. What else do you need?
 
I could generate two identical velocity-time and acceleration-time graphs, for two different situations with different ramp angles and different coefficients of friction.
 
We are talking about one graph of moving up, and the other moving down. The two situations are well connected. You cannot change the coefficient of friction or angle in between the motion. If you feel you can generate the graphs then please do and post.:smile:
 
There should only be a single acceleration graph.. unless there are other forces acting on the block other than gravity. The gravitational acceleration on the block does not care if the block is going up or down, the acceleration is constant. Therefore the acceleration-time graph is just a straight line, and fully describes the block moving up and down the ramp together with the initial velocity and position, no second graph is required.

Well the acceleration experienced by the block regardless of whether it is going up or down the ramp and regardless of whatever its velocity is will be found by:
in general
F_{friction} = \mu F_{normal}
F_{friction} = \mu mgcos\theta
the component of gravity down the ramp will be:
F_{g_{x}} = mgsin\theta
So the total force is:
F = F_{g_{x}} - F_{friction}
F = mgsin\theta - \mu mgcos\theta
So the acceleration is in general:
a = g(sin\theta - \mu cos\theta)
Then from this the velocity is simply the integral, we find:
v = g(sin\theta - \mu cos\theta)t + v_{0}

So for example, with a ramp angle of pi/4 and a coefficient of friction of 0.2, the acceleration is directed down the ramp with a magnitude of 5.544m/s^2
However, it is easy to verify that a ramp angle of pi/3 and a coefficient of friction of 0.601 also has an acceleration down the ramp of 5.544m/s^2
There should actually be an infinite amount of combinations of ramp angle and coefficients of friction that will give the same acceleration.
If the acceleration is the same, then the velocity and position graphs are also the same. (provided that all situations have the same starting point and initial velocity).
 
Last edited:
The book claims the answer is that all the magnitudes are the same because "the gravitational force on the penguin is the same". I'm having trouble understanding this. I thought the buoyant force was equal to the weight of the fluid displaced. Weight depends on mass which depends on density. Therefore, due to the differing densities the buoyant force will be different in each case? Is this incorrect?

Similar threads

Replies
18
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
957
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
10K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K