Collision in moving water-angle of rebound

In summary, the conversation revolved around a hypothetical scenario where a boat is moving in a river parallel to a wall, with both the boat and wall experiencing different velocities. The main question was whether the angle at which the boat rebounds off the wall would change due to the presence of the river. One person argued that the angle would remain the same, while the other argued that it would change due to the effect of the river's velocity on the boat's rebound velocity. The conversation also touched upon the concept of an 'ideal' medium and the need for agreeing on its properties and forces exerted on objects. The speaker also mentioned their attempt to draw an analogy to the concept of the 'ether' in special relativity. However, the expert
  • #1
cr7einstein
87
2
Hi all!
I was having a conversation with a (rather young) friend about the following imaginary situation- suppose you are in a helicopter, at rest relative to the ground. So you are basically seeing a 'top' view. Say you have a a wall fixed to the ground, and it is kept in the middle of a moving river, parallel to the flow which has a horizontal speed ##v_m##(relative to the ground). Suppose it is moving rightward. Note that the wall doesn't move relative to you. Now, there is a boat which is moving through the river, such that it's velocity relative to the river is purely vertical (i.e. its speed relative to the ground is is ##(v_y)^2+(v_m)^2##), and so relative to the helicopter, it follows a 'diagonal' path, moving towards the wall. The property of the wall is such that if there was no water ( and the boat could somehow still move), the boat would rebound exactly at the same speed, making the same angle with the wall as before (so something like an elastic collision).

Now, what happens in the presence of the river? For you inside the helicopter, does it still rebound at the same angle with which it hits the wall?
My argument is yes, it does. Because, if you were 'in the water', you would see the ball go straight up to the moving mirror and come back down the same way, so no change in angle. Since the helicopter is also an inertial frame, and all of them are equivalent, there should still be no change in angle after collision.
His argument is that after the collision, the boat STARTS moving out with the same speed as before, but this new velocity is immediately affected by the river velocity, and so it rebounds at a different angle (i.e. makes a greater angle with the normal through the wall; it has been 'carried' further to the right.)
Now, I do not want to use conservation of momentum to back up my argument. Is there a simple physical argument I could use to point out the mistake in his reasoning? I tried to show him the component of the velocity in direction of flow remains unchanged, and the component directed towards the wall gets 'reversed'. But he still thinks that the 'reversed' component will be further deviated to the right by the river. I tried explaining that the horizontal component is doing just that, but perhaps there is a better, more precise argument to explain this. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
cr7einstein said:
Now, what happens in the presence of the river?
Fluid dynamics makes everything complicated. You might have different simplifying assumptions in mind.
 
  • #3
A.T. said:
Fluid dynamics makes everything complicated. You might have different simplifying assumptions in mind.
Basically, consider any 'ideal' medium moving with a certain speed. Would the rebound angle still be the same as when there was no motion of the medium? The specific example we had in mind was the 'ether' ( the one which SR got rid of). So I tried to draw an analogy there.
 
  • #4
You've buried a problem with a relatively simple configuration in a sea of rambling words .

Just draw picture .
 
  • Like
Likes cr7einstein
  • #5
Nidum said:
You've buried a problem with a relatively simple configuration in a sea of rambling words .

Just draw picture .
I wanted to, but I do not know how to attach one!
 
  • #6
cr7einstein said:
...'ideal' medium...
You and your friend have to agree on what that is, and what forces it exerts on the boat under which conditions.
 
  • #7
Ideally draw using paint or similar software but otherwise scan a paper sketch . Save as a .png file and use the UPLOAD button right of the reply box to upload .

You can also paste images directly into the reply box .
 
  • #8
cr7einstein said:
I wanted to, but I do not know how to attach one!

Use the UPLOAD button that sits to the right of POST REPLY and PREVIEW.
 
  • #9
Nidum said:
Ideally draw using paint or similar software but otherwise scan a paper sketch . Save as a .png file and use the UPLOAD button right of the reply box to upload .
Untitled.png

You can also paste images directly into the reply box .
 

Attachments

  • Untitled.png
    Untitled.png
    7.6 KB · Views: 416

Related to Collision in moving water-angle of rebound

1. What is a collision in moving water-angle of rebound?

A collision in moving water-angle of rebound refers to the interaction between two objects or particles in a body of water where one object collides with another and changes direction due to the angle of rebound.

2. How is the angle of rebound calculated?

The angle of rebound is calculated using the law of reflection, which states that the angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection. This means that the angle of rebound can be calculated by measuring the angle between the incoming object and the surface of the water, and then measuring the angle between the outgoing object and the surface of the water.

3. What factors affect the angle of rebound in a collision in moving water?

The angle of rebound in a collision in moving water can be affected by several factors, including the speed and mass of the objects involved, the shape and surface properties of the objects, and the properties of the water, such as density and viscosity.

4. How does the angle of rebound impact the direction of movement after a collision?

The angle of rebound determines the direction of movement after a collision in moving water. If the angle of rebound is small, the object will continue moving in a similar direction, but if the angle is large, the object will change direction significantly.

5. What are some real-life applications of understanding collision in moving water-angle of rebound?

Understanding collision in moving water-angle of rebound has many practical applications, such as in designing boats and ships to minimize damage from collisions, predicting the movement of debris in water after a natural disaster, and studying the behavior of particles in ocean currents.

Similar threads

Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
68
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
968
  • Mechanics
Replies
9
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
761
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • Mechanics
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
34
Views
856
Back
Top