Coloumb's constant and the Gravitational constant

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the comparison between Coulomb's constant (Ke) in electrostatics and the gravitational constant (G) in gravitation. Participants explore the structural similarities and differences between these constants, particularly whether G can be broken down into a sub-structure analogous to Epsilon0 in electrostatics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that while Ke can be expressed as 1 / 4 pi Epsilon0 for convenience, there may not be a similar breakdown for G.
  • One participant questions whether there exists a fundamental constant within G that parallels the relationship of Epsilon0 to Ke.
  • Another participant mentions that G is an empirical constant and discusses historical attempts to derive G, suggesting that these attempts often aim to unify electromagnetism and gravitation.
  • A later reply references a specific case in General Relativity where a constant analogous to Epsilon0 may exist, indicating a reversed relationship with G.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether G can be broken down similarly to Ke, and there is no consensus on the existence of a fundamental constant within G analogous to Epsilon0. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the structural relationship between these constants.

Contextual Notes

Some participants refer to historical attempts to derive G, but these attempts are not universally accepted or agreed upon, and the discussion reflects varying perspectives on the nature of G as an empirical constant.

diagopod
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I'm trying to learn more about the differences and similarities b/w electrostatics and gravitation. Ke and G seem structurally similar, but while Ke can be broken down into 1 / 4 pi Epsilon0, I was wondering if there is a similar sub-structure for G? Is there any unit in gravitation analogous to Epsilon0 such that it makes sense to write 1/ 4 pi (constant here) = G?
 
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Factoring Ke as 17(4 pi epsilon0) is matter of convenience. This way Gauss' law takes a simple form. However the physical meaning is the same. On the other hand, there's no need to break down G to simplify some equation
 
diagopod said:
I'm trying to learn more about the differences and similarities b/w electrostatics and gravitation. Ke and G seem structurally similar, but while Ke can be broken down into 1 / 4 pi Epsilon0, I was wondering if there is a similar sub-structure for G? Is there any unit in gravitation analogous to Epsilon0 such that it makes sense to write 1/ 4 pi (constant here) = G?

Seems like we just answered this a few days ago with no response from the poster...
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=405175
...are you the same poster?

...
 
Creator said:
Seems like we just answered this a few days ago with no response from the poster...
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=405175
...are you the same poster?

...

Nope, but thanks for the link. It looks like that particular poster seems to think that G can be derived. I'm aware that G is an empirical constant. What I was curious about was whether there was a more fundamental (albeit still empirical) constant inside of G that had the same relation to G that Epsilon0 has to Ke. But either way, the thread you're pointing me to clarifies that pretty well, and it does seem like there's a special case in GR where there is an "Epsilon (g)" as you point out. And in that case it seems it's reversed, where G has the same relationship to another constant e(g) that Epsilon0 has to Ke. Anyway, learning...
 
diagopod said:
Nope, but thanks for the link. It looks like that particular poster seems to think that G can be derived. I'm aware that G is an empirical constant. What I was curious about was whether there was a more fundamental (albeit still empirical) constant inside of G that had the same relation to G that Epsilon0 has to Ke.

Hi diagopod;
Historically, there have been a number of attempts at analytic expressions for G which usually reflect an attempt to unify EM and gravitation.
Here's a good review of some... http://www.konfluence.org/CalculatingG.pdf

Personally, if forced to choose, I favor Sakharov.

Creator
 
Last edited:

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