Combustion Catalysts: What are they?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence and role of catalysts in combustion processes, with a focus on various fuels and their associated catalysts. Participants explore different types of catalysts, their applications in combustion, and specific examples, including solid rocket propellants.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the need for catalysts in combustion, noting that combustion typically propagates once initiated.
  • Iron oxide is mentioned as a potential catalyst, but its role in specific reactions, such as in solid rocket propellants, is debated.
  • Another participant clarifies that iron oxide may stabilize fuel rather than act as a catalyst in certain contexts.
  • Palladium and platinum are identified as catalysts used in combustion, particularly in finely divided forms supported on surfaces like alumina.
  • Participants discuss the conditions under which catalysts must operate, particularly their stability in high-temperature and oxidizing environments.
  • One participant reflects on the use of catalytic hand heaters that burn gasoline without flame, suggesting practical applications of combustion catalysts.
  • There is a mention of the need for further exploration of propellant catalysts and their specific functions in converting fuels from solid to gaseous states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role and definition of catalysts in combustion, particularly regarding iron oxide. There is no consensus on the necessity or effectiveness of specific catalysts, and the discussion remains unresolved on several points.

Contextual Notes

Some participants acknowledge limitations in their knowledge of chemistry, which may affect the accuracy of their claims about catalysts. The discussion also highlights the complexity of defining a catalyst's role in combustion processes.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in combustion chemistry, rocket propulsion, and the application of catalysts in various fuels may find this discussion relevant.

kateman
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Something made me think today, are there any catalysts for combustion?

I know it depends on the fule (such as hydrocarbons) but I wanted to leave this open to any kind of fule - I was just interested if there are catalysts for combustion and if so, what fule and what are the catalysts?

Thanks:smile:
 
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Fule? Do you mean fuel?
 
yes i do, my bad
 
kateman said:
Something made me think today, are there any catalysts for combustion?

I know it depends on the fule (such as hydrocarbons) but I wanted to leave this open to any kind of fule - I was just interested if there are catalysts for combustion and if so, what fule and what are the catalysts?

Thanks:smile:

Combustion happens quickly and once the initial energy is provided the energy generated from the reaction propagates subsequent ones , why would you envision that a catalyst would be needed? I admit that I do not have much awareness in this area.
 
iron oxide is one
 
Proton Soup said:
iron oxide is one

unless your thinking of thermite with the reaction of iron oxide and aluminium (which isn't a catalyst in that situation), what reaction does it catalyse?
 
kateman said:
unless your thinking of thermite with the reaction of iron oxide and aluminium (which isn't a catalyst in that situation), what reaction does it catalyse?

no, not thermite. I'm not a chemist, and i don't know the particulars, only that it is used as a catalyst in a solid rocket propellant. I'm sure you can find more info if you google, i probably shouldn't list the ingredients. one patent even pops up right away.
 
Proton Soup said:
no, not thermite. I'm not a chemist, and i don't know the particulars, only that it is used as a catalyst in a solid rocket propellant. I'm sure you can find more info if you google, i probably shouldn't list the ingredients. one patent even pops up right away.

Unless I am missing something, iron oxide in this patent is not a catalyst, it rather stabilizes fuel before ignition.
 
Proton Soup said:
no, not thermite. I'm not a chemist, and i don't know the particulars, only that it is used as a catalyst in a solid rocket propellant. I'm sure you can find more info if you google, i probably shouldn't list the ingredients. one patent even pops up right away.

propellant catalysts , i'd have to be careful as they seem to be used mainly to convert fuels (thanks for pulling me up on that Borek, i did initially write the wrong thing) from solid to gaseous state and i want combustion to be aided but this is an awesome idea of an area to explore! Thank you very much!

but still, iam open to anyother ideas/ suggestions:-p
 
  • #10
Borek said:
Unless I am missing something, iron oxide in this patent is not a catalyst, it rather stabilizes fuel before ignition.

that was what was kind of bugging me at the back of my mind, a combustion catalyst would make everything more unstable with lower activation energy - which may not always work out for propulsion

thanks Borek
 
  • #11
Palladium and platinum have been used as combustion catalysts, especially finely divided ones and those supported on surfaces (alumina, for example). Basically, you could look at any catalyst that works for hydrogenation, isomerization and dehydrogenation and determine if it could survive intact after exposure to direct flame and oxidizing conditions. I would think that limits the field to the noble metals like platinum.
 
  • #12
(bangs head on the wall) Obvious! There are those catalytic hand heaters in which gasoline is burnt without flame.
 
  • #13
kateman said:
propellant catalysts , i'd have to be careful as they seem to be used mainly to convert fuels (thanks for pulling me up on that Borek, i did initially write the wrong thing) from solid to gaseous state and i want combustion to be aided but this is an awesome idea of an area to explore! Thank you very much!

but still, iam open to anyother ideas/ suggestions:-p

yeah, it's not a typical application. i used to have a list of the the ingredients used in the SRBs on the shuttle, and I'm pretty sure iron oxide was listed as a catalyst, but i can't find it atm.
 
  • #14
chemisttree said:
Palladium and platinum have been used as combustion catalysts, especially finely divided ones and those supported on surfaces (alumina, for example). Basically, you could look at any catalyst that works for hydrogenation, isomerization and dehydrogenation and determine if it could survive intact after exposure to direct flame and oxidizing conditions. I would think that limits the field to the noble metals like platinum.

awesome, thank you chemisttree, that's exactly what iam after! And thank you too, Borek, i had no idea such things existed but i'll look into them.

Also, Proton Soup, thanks for your help and if you ever do find that list, I would be most interested if you could please send it to me in a private message :smile:
 

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