Commutations and delta in deriving Ampère's law

In summary, the conversation discusses the mathematical justification for deriving Ampère's law from the Biot-Savart law. The conversation mentions the use of the Lebesgue measure and integrals, and the commutation between integral and differential operators. The conversation also mentions a possible use of distribution theory and references a book for further discussion on the topic. The speaker expresses difficulty in understanding some of the steps in Wikipedia's proof and notes that others have also found it misleading.
  • #1
DavideGenoa
155
5
Hi, friends! I have been able to understand, thanks to Hawkeye18, whom I thank again, that, if ##\mathbf{J}## is measurable according to the usual ##\mathbb{R}^3## Lebesgue measure ##\mu_{\mathbf{l}}## and bounded, a reasonable hypothesis if we consider it the density of current, if ##V\subset\mathbb{R}^3## is bounded and ##\mu_{\mathbf{l}}##-measurable and if we define, for any ##\mathbf{r}\in\mathbb{R}^3##,$$\mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r}):=\frac{\mu_0}{4\pi}\int_V\mathbf{J}(\mathbf{l}) \times\frac{\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{l}}{\|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{l}\|^3}d\mu_{\mathbf{l}}\quad\text{ and }\quad\mathbf{A}(\mathbf{r}):=\frac{\mu_0}{4\pi}\int_V \frac{\mathbf{J}(\mathbf{l})}{\|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{l}\|}d\mu_{\mathbf{l}}$$then$$\nabla_r\times\mathbf{A}(\mathbf{r})=\frac{\mu_0}{4\pi}\int_V\nabla_r\times\left[ \frac{\mathbf{J}(\mathbf{l})}{\|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{l}\|}\right]d\mu_{\mathbf{l}}=\mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r}).$$

Wikipedia's derivation of Ampère's law from the Biot-Savart law, which is the only one that I have been able to find, calculates $$\nabla\times\mathbf{B}=\frac{\mu_0}{4\pi}\nabla\iiint_Vd^3l\mathbf{J}(\mathbf{l})\cdot\nabla\left(\frac{1}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{l}|}\right)-\frac{\mu_0}{4\pi}\iiint_Vd^3l\mathbf{J}(\mathbf{l})\nabla^2\left(\frac{1}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{l}|}\right) .$$I suppose that this equality descends from the identity$$\nabla_r\times\left[\nabla_r\times\left[\frac{\mathbf{J}(\mathbf{l})}{\|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{l}\|}\right]\right]=\nabla_r\left[ \mathbf{J}(\mathbf{l})\cdot\nabla_r\left[\frac{1}{\|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{l}\|}\right] \right]-\nabla_r^2\left[\frac{1}{\|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{l}\|}\right]\mathbf{J}(\mathbf{l})$$valid for any ##\mathbf{r}\in\mathring{A}##, ##\mathbf{r}\ne\mathbf{l}##, if ##\mathbf{J}\in C^2(\mathring{A})##, with some commutation between integral and differential operators which I am not able to justify. How can such commutations be mathematically proved, provided that they make sense (see below)?

Moreover, it is worth of note that $$-\frac{\mu_0}{4\pi}\iiint_Vd^3l\mathbf{J}(\mathbf{l})\nabla^2\left(\frac{1}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{l}|}\right) $$ is equated with ##\mu_0\mathbf{J}(\mathbf{r})## as if it were (following equality for ex. if ##\mathbf{J}## is a Schwarz function with compact support contained in ##V##)$$\mu_0\int\delta(\mathbf{l}-\mathbf{r}) \mathbf{J}(\mathbf{l})d^3l:=\mu_0\mathbf{J}(\mathbf{r})=\frac{\mu_0}{4\pi}\int_{V}\frac{\nabla_l^2\mathbf{J}(l)}{\|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{l}\|}d\mu_{\mathbf{l}}$$where the integral on the left is just a symbolic notation for a linear operator and the integral on the right, as the measure ##\mu_{\mathbf{l}}## indicates, is a Lebesgue integral, while we can notice that $$\forall\mathbf{r}\in\mathbb{R}^3\quad-\frac{\mu_0}{4\pi}\int_V\nabla_r^2\left[\frac{1}{\|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{l}\|}\right]\mathbf{J}(\mathbf{l})d\mu_{\mathbf{l}}=\mathbf{0}$$(and the same with ##\nabla_l^2## in place of ##\nabla_r^2##): a quite different result.
How can the steps of Wikipedia's outline of proof be justified mathematically? I have even been told, by a friend of mine who is a graduate mathematics student, that such a derivation is not correct, but I have not been able to find another one...

I ##\infty##-ly thank you for any answer!

P.S.: To illustrate something that I know that I do not exclude to be useful to prove the desired result, I think that, if ##\phi\in C^2(\mathring{A})##, ##\phi:\mathring{A}\to\mathbb{R}##, ##\bar{V}\subset \mathring{A}##, ##\mathbf{x}\in\mathring{V}## and there is a ##\delta## such that, for all ##\varepsilon\le \delta##, ##\varepsilon>0##, the region ##V\setminus B_\epsilon(\mathbf{x})## satisfies the assumptions of Gauss' divergence theorem, then$$\phi(\mathbf{x})=\frac{1}{4\pi}\int_{\partial V}\left( \frac{\nabla'\phi(\mathbf{x}')}{\|\mathbf{x}-\mathbf{x}'\|}-\phi(\mathbf{x}')\frac{\mathbf{x}'-\mathbf{x}}{\|\mathbf{x}-\mathbf{x}'\|}\right)\cdot\mathbf{N}_e 'd\sigma'
-\frac{1}{4\pi}\lim_{\varepsilon\to 0^{+}}\int_{V\setminus B_{\varepsilon}(\mathbf{x})}\frac{\nabla'^2\phi(\mathbf{x}')}{\|\mathbf{x}-\mathbf{x}'\|}dV'$$and$$\nabla^2\phi(\mathbf{x})=-\frac{1}{4\pi}\nabla^2\int_{V}\frac{\nabla'^2\phi(\mathbf{x}')}{\|\mathbf{x}-\mathbf{x}'\|}d\mu_{\mathbf{x}'}$$.
 
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  • #2
In my opinion the way to go is to use distribution theory. In the book Applied Functional Analysis - Applications to Mathematical Physics by Eberhad Zeidler there is a discussion of the electrostatics case (page 183). Maybe you can try to use similar arguments to prove the magnetostatics case.
 
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  • #3
@Xiuh I thank you so much for your bibliographic suggestion! I hope that my last trial to understand how Ampère's law is a consequence of the Biot-Savart law is not so incorrect. Nevertheless, I still cannot give a meaning to each of the steps appearing in Wikipedia's outline proof, which I must frankly admit to find very misleading for the inexperienced student and not only for him/her. In fact, while asking about what the integrals are (Lebesgue or what else) and why the commutations are mathematically licit in some sites and forums, I have received answers by people seeing commutations between integrals and derivatives as something so natural to prevent them understanding even my question and I am not only talking about undergraduate students, but even professionals...
 

1. What is the definition of a commutation in Ampère's law?

A commutation in Ampère's law refers to the process of exchanging the roles of the electric and magnetic fields in a given equation. This is done by replacing the current with the displacement current or vice versa.

2. How does a commutation affect the derivation of Ampère's law?

The commutation allows for the inclusion of the displacement current term in Ampère's law, which is necessary for the law to hold true in all cases. Without this step, the law would only apply to cases where the current is constant.

3. What is the significance of delta in Ampère's law derivation?

Delta (Δ) is used in Ampère's law derivation to represent the change in the magnetic field over time. This allows for the inclusion of time-varying electric fields and currents in the law.

4. How does the inclusion of delta affect the final form of Ampère's law?

The inclusion of delta in Ampère's law results in the addition of the displacement current term, which allows for the law to hold true in all cases, including those involving time-varying electric fields and currents.

5. What is the role of symmetry in the derivation of Ampère's law?

Symmetry plays a crucial role in the derivation of Ampère's law as it allows for the simplification of equations and the identification of patterns. This makes it easier to apply the law to various situations and derive useful results.

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