Comparing Event Occurrence Across PORs

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter whosapopstar?
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of an event occurring in one frame of reference (FOR) and not in another, particularly focusing on the implications of different types of reference frames, including inertial and non-inertial frames, as well as the concept of event horizons in the context of special and general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that events can be inaccessible to certain observers due to event horizons, as seen in black holes or regions beyond the observable universe.
  • Others argue that in special relativity, if an event occurs, it must be observable by all observers moving at constant speed relative to one another, as the Lorentz Transform applies universally without restrictions on event occurrence.
  • There is a distinction made between local and global reference frames, with some participants asserting that accelerating observers can still measure events locally, while others emphasize the limitations of non-inertial frames.
  • One participant expresses confusion over the terminology used, particularly the difference between "point of view" and "frame of reference," indicating a lack of standard definitions in the discussion.
  • Several participants highlight the need for clarity in the context of the original question, with some suggesting that the interpretation of the question could lead to different answers depending on the framework used (special vs. general relativity).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether events can occur in one frame of reference and not in another. There are competing views regarding the implications of event horizons and the applicability of special relativity versus general relativity.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include varying interpretations of "event" and "frame of reference," as well as the potential for misunderstandings regarding the implications of acceleration and the nature of observation in different reference frames.

  • #91
Ok, let's go back to static images!
Attached is this diagram, please observe details.

d is a very small distance, especially when comparing with the path that ligth beams take between clocks, even very small comparing to the horizontal difference of position between clock A and clock B.

Clock A will indicate which light beam came first: the one from clock C or the one from clock B.

We know that time dilation exists at constant speed and that when we calibrated the apparatus at a slower constant speed, the C clock hindrance of the light beam was exactly in the order to compensate the horizontal difference between clocks A and B and thus, we had the exact same time indications on these clocks (A and B), and hence, clock B indicated that the light beam from clock C arrived first. As well, the mirror reflection time is very small, comparing to anything else described here.

Now we are at a different and faster constant speed, we do not change the apparatus calibration, but still- we know that according to the principle of relativity, time indication of both beams arriving at the clocks, clock A and B, will be an equal time and also as before, clock A will indicate that light arrived first from clock C and not from clock B.

How come? What is the reason? What effect counteracts time dilation, that we know that takes place at a higher constant speed?
 

Attachments

  • Time Dilation1.jpg
    Time Dilation1.jpg
    20.1 KB · Views: 426
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #92
Your description lacks some details but if I understand you correctly, the first of the attached files shows how you would draw it in the applet. The light is emitted at F, triggers clock C as it passes then reflects from the mirror at B before stopping the clock at A. Clock C sends the delayed pulse at D and if I follow your description, the delay is such that the light arrives at A to start the clock (which I show as event E).

The second file shows what the events look like from another frame, i.e. an observer moving right to left hence the clocks are moving left to right. All I did for that was to move the slider. You should be able to see that the diagram shows length contraction, time dilation and the relativity of simultaneity as you move the slider.

p.s. The short horizontal lines on C-D and E-A are the ticks of the clocks.
 

Attachments

  • st_1.png
    st_1.png
    1.2 KB · Views: 420
  • st_2.png
    st_2.png
    1.3 KB · Views: 440

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 73 ·
3
Replies
73
Views
3K
  • · Replies 58 ·
2
Replies
58
Views
6K
  • · Replies 144 ·
5
Replies
144
Views
11K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
1K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
4K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
3K