Comparing Gravitational Accelerations: Newtonian vs. General Relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on comparing gravitational accelerations derived from Newton's law of gravitation and Einstein's general relativity (GR). Participants explore the mathematical formulations and implications of both theories, examining specific cases and the conceptual differences between them.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the Newtonian gravitational acceleration for a mass of 1kg at a distance of 1m, yielding a value of 6.6742 m/s².
  • Another participant expresses difficulty in understanding acceleration in GR and requests a definition of acceleration in that context.
  • A participant provides a formula for gravitational acceleration in GR, noting that it includes a factor accounting for gravitational time dilation.
  • There is a correction regarding the Newtonian acceleration value, with a participant clarifying it should be 6.6742 x 10^-11 m/s².
  • Discussion includes the importance of specifying how acceleration is measured, particularly in relation to local accelerometers versus those at infinity.
  • One participant discusses the differences in the settings of Newtonian and relativistic gravitation, emphasizing the complexities in comparing predictions from both theories.
  • A specific example is presented involving the Schwarzschild solution, illustrating that the acceleration required to hover over a massive object in GR is greater than the Newtonian prediction.
  • Concerns are raised about the interpretation of coordinates in GR compared to Newtonian physics, cautioning against oversimplification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation and implications of gravitational acceleration in both Newtonian and relativistic contexts. There is no consensus on a definitive comparison or resolution of the complexities involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for careful consideration of the definitions and measurements involved in both theories, as well as the potential for misinterpretation when comparing results from different frameworks.

Sheyr
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Can someone help me to calculate the difference between accelerations due to Newton’s law of gravitation and Einstein’s general relativity?

Let’s assume the gravitating mass M equals to 1kg and the distance r equals to 1m than the acceleration due to Newton is:

a = G * M / r^2 = 6,6742 m/s^2

What is the acceleration, in such a case, calculated using math of GR?
 
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I have always problems when I read about acceleration in GR.
I can calculate the motion in any coordinate system, from the invariant least action principle. This lead to differential equations in the choosen coordinate system and this is clear for me.

You may help me to communicate if you could give me the definition of the acceleration.

Thanks,

Michel
 
It is
a = G*M/r² * 1/sqrt(1-2*G*M/(c²*r))
 
Sheyr said:
Can someone help me to calculate the difference between accelerations due to Newton’s law of gravitation and Einstein’s general relativity?

Let’s assume the gravitating mass M equals to 1kg and the distance r equals to 1m than the acceleration due to Newton is:

a = G * M / r^2 = 6,6742 m/s^2
You mean:

a = G * M / r^2 = 6,6742*10^-11 m/s^2
 
lightarrow said:
You mean:

a = G * M / r^2 = 6,6742*10^-11 m/s^2

Yes, I do :) Thank you Lightarrow
 
Ich said:
It is
a = G*M/r² * 1/sqrt(1-2*G*M/(c²*r))

For specificity we should add that that's the acceleration one will measure with a local accelerometer. Since clocks tick at different rates due to gravitational time dilation, and rulers also experience gravitational effects, its important to specify how the acceleration is measured. So this is the answer that one would get from a local acclerometer (as opposed to one at infinity, for instance).
 
Gravitational acceleration according to Newton versus Einstein?

Hi, Sheyr,

Sheyr said:
Can someone help me to calculate the difference between accelerations due to Newton’s law of gravitation and Einstein’s general relativity?

Let’s assume the gravitating mass M equals to 1kg and the distance r equals to 1m than the acceleration due to Newton is:

a = G * M / r^2 = 6,6742 m/s^2

What is the acceleration, in such a case, calculated using math of GR?

Since the setting for Newtonian gravitation (flat euclidean space with universal time) is quite different from the setting (curved Lorentzian manifold) for gtr, it should be easy to appreciate why it is not as easy to directly compare the predictions as you might wish.

One general principle we can state informally is this: in gtr, all fields carry energy, and all forms of mass-energy gravitate, so we should expect that the gravitational field itself gravitates, and that the central attraction of an isolated massive object should therefore be stronger in gtr than in Newtonian gravitation.

Here is a specific way to see that in a specific sense this expectation is fulfilled. Consider the Schwarzschild vacuum solution of the EFE, which models a spherically symmetric gravitational field, produced by some non-rotating isolated massive object, e.g. a simple model of a (nonrotating) star, or a (nonrotating) black hole. Consider the acceleration required for an observer in a spacecraft who is using his rocket engine to "hover" motionless over the object at some location r=r0.

Here, r is the Schwarzschild radial coordinate, which is closely analogous to radial coordinate of flat spacetime (in a polar spherical coordinate chart) in some ways (surface area of nested spheres of radius r=r0, expansion scalar of radially outgoing null congruence) and not analogous in others (Schwarzschild radial coordinate differences r1-r2 where r1 > r2 do NOT correspond to "radial distances" in the Schwarzschild geometry).

Nonetheless we can compute the magnitude of this acceleration (which is purely radial and OUTWARD pointing, as you should expect since, intuitively, it is opposing the INWARD attraction of the massive object which is the source of the ambient gravitational field) and compare this value with our naive Newtonian expectation. The answer turns out to be (in relativistic units in which G = c= 1)

m/r0^2/sqrt(1-2m/r0)

which is larger than the Newtonian value m/r0^2.

On the other hand, if we consider an observer in a rocket ship who fires his rocket engine radially inward with just the right thrust to produce an acceleration of m/r0^2, at each r=r0, then he should slowly fall toward the massive central object. This is indeed the case, in fact the tangent vector to his world line, Y, can be written (in the Schwarzschild chart)

Y = (1-m/r)/(1-2m/r) @/@t - m/r @/@r

But again, remember that our radial coordinate is not perfectly identifiable with the radial coordinate used in a polar spherical chart in Newtonian graviation, so you need to be cautious in interpreting such computations. In particular, many students are misled by incautiously interpreting a similar computation for the Reissner-Nordstrom electrovacuum solution. I'll leave that computation and its interpretation as an exercise.

Chris Hillman
 

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