Computing the Magnitude of F Using Gradient

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around computing the magnitude of a vector field \( F \) derived from a scalar field \( \phi \) using the gradient operator. The participants are exploring the relationships between the variables involved and the mathematical expressions that define them.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to compute the magnitude of \( F \) and questions the validity of an algebraic expression related to the distance between points. Some participants point out potential algebraic errors and clarify the correct relationship between the variables. There is also a discussion about the correct interpretation of the scalar field and its gradient.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging in clarifying misunderstandings regarding the algebraic manipulation of the expressions. Guidance has been provided regarding the correct formulation of the problem and the distinction between the scalar field and the vector field. Multiple methods for computing the gradient are being explored, but no consensus has been reached on the final approach.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing examination of the assumptions regarding the definitions of the variables and the dimensional correctness of the expressions used. The original poster is also navigating the constraints of homework rules that may limit the types of assistance they can receive.

JD_PM
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Homework Statement


Screenshot (148).png


Homework Equations



$$F = \nabla \phi$$

$$| F | = \sqrt{F \cdot F}$$

The Attempt at a Solution



I want to compute ##| F | = \sqrt{F \cdot F}##

$$| F | = \sqrt{F \cdot F} = \sqrt{\frac{(km)^2 (r-r_0)^2}{|r-r_0|^6}} = \sqrt{\frac{(km)^2}{(r-r_0)}} = \frac{km}{(r-r_0)^{1/2}} = \frac{km}{|r-r_0|} $$

That seems to be OK. I have one doubt here; would the following equality hold?

$$(r-r_0)^2 = ((x-x_0) - (y-y_0) - (z-z_0))^2$$

I do not need it for getting | F | but I want to be sure of this.

Thanks.
 

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No, (r-r0)2 = (x-x0)2 + (y-y0)2 + (z-z0)2
There also seems to be a mistake in your algebra. (r-r0)2/(r-r0)6 = 1/(r-r0)4, so you should end up with (r-r0)2 in the denominator (any other power would be dimensionally wrong).
 
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mjc123 said:
No, (r-r0)2 = (x-x0)2 + (y-y0)2 + (z-z0)2
There also seems to be a mistake in your algebra. (r-r0)2/(r-r0)6 = 1/(r-r0)4, so you should end up with (r-r0)2 in the denominator (any other power would be dimensionally wrong).

OK I see. Now I get:

$$| F | = \sqrt{F \cdot F} = \sqrt{\frac{(km)^2 (r-r_0)^2}{|r-r_0|^6}} = \sqrt{\frac{(km)^2}{(r-r_0)^4}} = \frac{km}{(r-r_0)^{2}} = \frac{km}{|r-r_0|^2}$$

But the solution is ##\frac{km}{|r-r_0|}## so I must be missing something...
 
JD_PM said:
OK I see. Now I get:

$$| F | = \sqrt{F \cdot F} = \sqrt{\frac{(km)^2 (r-r_0)^2}{|r-r_0|^6}} = \sqrt{\frac{(km)^2}{(r-r_0)^4}} = \frac{km}{(r-r_0)^{2}} = \frac{km}{|r-r_0|^2}$$

But the solution is ##\frac{km}{|r-r_0|}## so I must be missing something...

Basically, I want to understand how to compute the derivative of the length of a vector function with respect to one variable, using:

Screenshot (149).png


The stated solution is:

Screenshot (150).png


NOTE: The scalar field is:

Screenshot (151).png
 

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JD_PM said:
OK I see. Now I get:

$$| F | = \sqrt{F \cdot F} = \sqrt{\frac{(km)^2 (r-r_0)^2}{|r-r_0|^6}} = \sqrt{\frac{(km)^2}{(r-r_0)^4}} = \frac{km}{(r-r_0)^{2}} = \frac{km}{|r-r_0|^2}$$

But the solution is ##\frac{km}{|r-r_0|}## so I must be missing something...
That solution is the scalar field ##\phi##, not ##F##.
 
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DrClaude said:
That solution is the scalar field ##\phi##, not ##F##.

I was computing the gradient of the wrong field! Actually, I have to compute the gradient of ##\phi##.Thanks for pointing that out.

Now we have two ways of computing it:

1):

Screenshot (152).png


I get that one.

What I do not get is the second method:

Screenshot (150).png


I am trying to get the encircled step using formula on #4 but don't get it. May you show it me?
 

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That comes from the rule
$$
\frac{d}{dx} f(x)^{n} = n f(x)^{n-1} \frac{d}{dx} f(x)
$$
with ##n=-1##.
 
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