Concept of Rate: Understanding Division of Different Units

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Square1
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Concept Rate
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of "rate," particularly in the context of quantities with different units, such as speed and acceleration. Participants explore the relationship between division and the expression of rates, as well as the conceptual understanding of these terms in practical scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on how the expression for division arises from statements like 'a' meters per 'b' seconds, questioning the role of division in defining rates.
  • Another participant asserts that the slope, which represents speed, is a division of units (meters over time).
  • A third participant notes that "per" implies division, reinforcing the connection between rates and division.
  • A practical example is presented involving a ball rolling a certain distance over time, illustrating how to reason through the relationship between different properties without using fractions.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about their understanding of the topic, indicating a moment of confusion regarding their own questions and the concept of rates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the concept of rates and the role of division. While some agree on the connection between "per" and division, others remain uncertain about the implications and reasoning behind these concepts, indicating that the discussion is not fully resolved.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of missing clarity on how division specifically relates to the concept of rates, as well as unresolved questions about the reasoning behind the use of units in this context.

Square1
Messages
143
Reaction score
1
The concept of a "rate"

Here's another question from good ol square :|

I was hoping to get some clarification about the concept of a rate of two quantities, with different units, like speed \frac{a-units}{b-units}. How does the expression for division \frac{a-units}{b-units} arise from the statement like 'a' meters per 'b' seconds?

If I were to plot meters vs. time for some object moving at constant speed, I can get the 'rate' of the curve by using the definition of slope like we were taught Δmeters/Δtime ie the speed.

I also understand that acceleration is the change in velocity, 'per' given desired time interval ie Δvelocity/Δtime.

In both cases, I don't think I have conceptual issue with why it makes sense to define these rates of change with respect to time, I just don't understand what division has to do with it - multiple subtractions of units of time, from the numerator?? :S Thanks.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hi Square1! :smile:
Square1 said:
… I can get the 'rate' of the curve by using the definition of slope like we were taught Δmeters/Δtime ie the speed.

… I just don't understand what division has to do with it - multiple subtractions of units of time, from the numerator??

The slope is a division: units up over units across.

(and i don't understand the last part of your question, about subtractions)
 
"per" means "divide".
 
A ball rolls 5 feet every 30 seconds. How far has it rolled after 3 minutes (solve without using fractions)? How did you reason out your answer? Is it a bit like "There are 5 feet attributed to every slice of 30 seconds, so I just have to find how many slices of 30 seconds fit into 3 minutes" ? That's pretty much the motivation for a fraction: one property is directly associated to a certain amount of a different property, so operations with that property correspond to operations on the proper corresponding multiple of the first property.
 
Thank you for the feedback everyone. I am backing out of this question though. I don't know if I am overthinking it or something, but I am having a "I'm not exactly sure what my own problem even is" moment. Although, there is something I'm not getting :S Maybe I'll come back to it another time.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
3K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 58 ·
2
Replies
58
Views
4K
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
5K