Conclusion from beta-spectrum to existence of neutrinos

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    Existence Neutrinos
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of beta-decay and the existence of neutrinos, particularly focusing on the kinetic energy spectrum of the decay products. Participants explore the reasoning behind the continuous spectrum of electron kinetic energy and challenge the idea that this could be solely due to the proton's kinetic energy spectrum.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the continuous spectrum of electron kinetic energy in beta-decay cannot be explained by the proton's kinetic energy being continuous, as this would imply a sharp peak in electron energy if it were a two-body decay.
  • It is noted that the neutron decays at rest, and the measurement of the proton is not typically involved in beta-decay experiments.
  • One participant highlights that without a neutrino, conservation laws would necessitate the electron and the residual nucleus having the same discrete momentum, which contradicts the observed continuous spectrum.
  • Another participant emphasizes that beta-decay experiments are conducted with nuclei at rest, which influences the momentum and energy distribution of the decay products.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the explanation of the continuous kinetic energy spectrum, with some supporting the necessity of the neutrino's existence while others challenge the sufficiency of alternative explanations.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of momentum and energy conservation in beta-decay, particularly in relation to the role of the neutrino and the conditions of the decay process.

Doc Dienstag
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In beta-decay the kinetic energy of the electron is continuous. This led Pauli to the conclusion, that the pre-1930 picture (beta-decay = neutron -> proton + electron) is incorrect and he assumed that a third particle (the neutrino) is taking part.

Question:
Why would the following explanation be wrong?
The spectrum of the electron's kinetic energy is continous, only because the spectrum of the proton's kinetic energy is contnious, too. The total energy kinetic energy of the neutron is then arbitrarily split between the electron and the proton.
I know this explanation is wrong but how does one know, that the kinetic energy spectrum of the proton is not continuous?
 
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First, the neutron decays at rest and one does not measure the proton.

The essential thing is that if the neutron-decay would be a 2body decay, there would be a sharp peak on the electron energy.

And it was Pauli who suggested the neutrino, right?
 
Doc Dienstag said:
Question:
Why would the following explanation be wrong?
The spectrum of the electron's kinetic energy is continous, only because the spectrum of the proton's kinetic energy is contnious, too. The total energy kinetic energy of the neutron is then arbitrarily split between the electron and the proton.
I know this explanation is wrong but how does one know, that the kinetic energy spectrum of the proton is not continuous?
Without a neutrino, conservation of momentum and energy requires the electron and the residual nucleus to have the same discrete momentum.
There was also a unit of 1/2 in conservation of angular momentum that required the neutrino.
 
Doc Dienstag said:
The total energy kinetic energy of the neutron is then arbitrarily split between the electron and the proton.

First, remember that we do beta-decay experiments with nuclei, not with isolated neutrons.

In beta-decay experiments, the initial nucleus is effectively at rest (momentum = 0). Therefore the total (vector) momentum of the electron and the residual nucleus must be zero, which means the electron and residual nucleus must have the same magnitude momentum in opposite directions. Together with the fact that there is a fixed total amount of energy released in the decay, this means the electron and residual nucleus must each have a fixed amount of energy.
 

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