Conditions for using Stokes' Theorem

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions necessary for applying Stokes' Theorem to manifolds, particularly focusing on the requirements of orientability and smoothness. Participants explore theoretical implications, applications in complex analysis, and the integration of differential forms on various types of manifolds.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a manifold must be orientable to apply Stokes' Theorem, while questioning whether smoothness is also a necessary condition.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of a smooth structure for defining integrals of smooth n-form fields, suggesting that without it, the application of Stokes' Theorem may be problematic.
  • Another participant discusses the relationship between Stokes' Theorem and meromorphic functions, proposing a method to express integrals involving singularities and residues.
  • Some participants note that Stokes' Theorem can apply to smooth singular chains on both oriented and non-oriented manifolds, raising questions about how integration works in non-orientable contexts.
  • A participant requests clarification on how to integrate over non-orientable manifolds using Stokes' Theorem, expressing confusion about the preservation of orientation in their previous experiences.
  • One participant explains that a smooth singular simplex has two natural orientations and that integration can occur over oriented simplexes, regardless of the manifold's orientation.
  • Another participant introduces a thought experiment involving functions on non-orientable manifolds and their integration after pulling back to an orientable cover.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of smoothness for applying Stokes' Theorem, with some asserting it is essential while others suggest it may not be. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of non-orientability and the specifics of integration in that context.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding how integration can be performed on non-orientable manifolds and the implications of singular chains, indicating that further clarification and exploration are needed.

Mandelbroth
Messages
610
Reaction score
23
I'm back with more questions! :approve:

I'm wondering what conditions must a manifold satisfy to be able to use Stokes' Theorem. I understand that it must be orientable, but does it have to necessarily be smooth?

I tried to see if it was possible to prove Cauchy's Residue Theorem and Cauchy's Integral Formula using Stokes' Theorem, but I got stuck with results that don't make sense. Both require that an integrand can be meromorphic, so I'm not sure that Stokes' Theorem will necessarily apply to nonsmooth manifolds.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
WannabeNewton said:
How are you going to define integrals of smooth n-form fields without a smooth structure? In fact, how are you going to define smooth n-form fields without a smooth structure?

That wasn't meant to disprove you by the way; I was just setting the stage. Take a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_exterior_calculus
http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~misha/Fall09/Hirani03.pdf
http://arxiv.org/pdf/math/0508341v2.pdf
I didn't know. :-p

I figured it out, though. I think it's cool, so I might as well share it here to explain what I was trying to do to see if there's any more information to be had.

Let ##z\in\mathbb{C}:z=x+iy## and ##f(z)=u(x,y)+iv(x,y)## be a meromorphic function such that f is undefined for all ##z_0\in\mathcal{A}\subseteq D:\mathcal{A}=\{a_1, a_2, \cdots , a_n\}##. Then, what I wanted to say was

$$\oint\limits_{\partial D}f(z) \, dz = \iint\limits_D d(f(z) \, dz) = \iint\limits_D \left(\left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial y}+\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}\right)+i\left(\frac{\partial v}{\partial y}-\frac{\partial u}{\partial x}\right)\right)dy\wedge dx$$
which makes the Cauchy Integral Theorem rather trivially evident.

However, this is not necessarily the most fun to use to prove the more general Residue Theorem.

What I noted instead was that I could make the integral become

$$\iint\limits_{D\setminus\mathcal{A}} \left(\left(\frac{\partial u}{\partial y}+\frac{\partial v}{\partial x}\right)+i\left(\frac{\partial v}{\partial y}-\frac{\partial u}{\partial x}\right)\right)dy\wedge dx + \sum_{k=1}^{n}\left[\, \oint\limits_{\beta(a_k)}f(z) \, dz \,\right]$$
where ##\beta(a_k)## traces an infinitesimally small circle around ##a_k##.

I'm working in a similar way to get the Cauchy Integral Formula.
 
Stokes theorem applies to smooth singular chains.These exist on both oriented and non-oriented manifolds.

The real and complex parts of a holomorphic differential are closed. This just restates the Cauchy-Riemann equations. Stokes theorem tells you that the integral of the differential must be zero around any piecewise smooth closed curve within its domain of holomorphy.

Except for the term of degree minus 1, the terms in a Laurent series when multiplied by dz are all exact forms and so by Stokes Theorem integrate to zero around a circle. So the integral of a meromorphic function around a pole is its residue by Cauchy's theorem.
 
Last edited:
lavinia said:
Stokes theorem applies to smooth singular chains. These exist on both oriented and non-oriented manifolds.
I understand everything else about your post, but this is new to me. I was aware that Stokes' Theorem had something to do with chains, but I was unaware that you could use that fact to apply it to non-orientable manifolds.

But then, I don't understand how that would work, since all of the integration I've done preserved some form of orientation (id est, ##\int_{a}^{b}f^\prime(x) \, dx = \int\limits_{[a,b]} f^\prime(x) \, dx = f(b) - f(a)##). Can you please elaborate how you would integrate over a non-orientable manifold using Stokes' Theorem?
 
See chapter 4 of Spivak's Calculus on Manifolds.
 
Mandelbroth said:
I understand everything else about your post, but this is new to me. I was aware that Stokes' Theorem had something to do with chains, but I was unaware that you could use that fact to apply it to non-orientable manifolds.

But then, I don't understand how that would work, since all of the integration I've done preserved some form of orientation (id est, ##\int_{a}^{b}f^\prime(x) \, dx = \int\limits_{[a,b]} f^\prime(x) \, dx = f(b) - f(a)##). Can you please elaborate how you would integrate over a non-orientable manifold using Stokes' Theorem?

i am sorry I was so brief. A smooth singular simplex has two natural orientations. One can always integrate a differential form over an oriented simplex whether it is in an oriented or unoriented manifold.

A smooth singular chain is a finite formal sum of oriented smooth simplexes. The integral of a differential form over the chain is the sum of its integrals over each oriented simplex in the chain.

When you talk about "integrating over a manifold" you mean expressing the fundamental cycle of the manifold as a smooth singular chain then integrate over that chain. An unorientable manifold does not have a fundamental cycle so there is no smooth singular chain to integrate over.
 
Last edited:
As an after thought here is something to think about.

Suppose you have a function on a non-orientable manifold. Pull this function back to the orientable 2 fold cover and multiply it by any orientation form you want. Integrate this then divide by 2.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K