Confusion with Dot Product in Polar Coordinates with the Metric Tensor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the dot product in polar coordinates using the metric tensor. Participants explore the validity of the metric tensor in relation to different vectors and the implications of varying basis vectors at different points in the coordinate system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about which value of r to use when calculating the dot product of two vectors in polar coordinates, given that both vectors depend on r.
  • Another participant mentions that both r and theta are typically treated as functions in this context.
  • A different participant questions the validity of using the same metric tensor for different vectors, highlighting that basis vectors differ at different points.
  • One participant clarifies that the metric is a tensor field associated with each point in the space, suggesting that the r used in the metric corresponds to the absolute value of the position vector.
  • Another participant offers a method for calculating the metric in cylindrical coordinates, indicating how to convert between contravariant and covariant forms using the metric tensor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and agreement regarding the application of the metric tensor and the nature of the dot product in polar coordinates. There is no consensus on the validity of using the same metric tensor for different vectors, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the dependence of the metric tensor on the specific point in the coordinate system and the implications of varying basis vectors, which may affect the application of the dot product.

MrBillyShears
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Alright, so I was reading up on tensors and such with non-Cartesian coordinate systems all day but now I'm a bit tired an confused so you'll have to forgive me if it's a stupid question. So to express the dot product in some coordinate system, it's:
g(\vec{A}\,,\vec{B})=A^aB^bg_{ab}
And, if we're dealing with polar coordinates, then the metric is:
g_{ab}=\begin{pmatrix}1&0\\0&r^2\end{pmatrix}
Alright, so the dot product is:
A^1B^1+(r)^2A^2B^2
But which r? I know I'm probably only confused because I'm so tired right now, but both A and B have r's, do't they? Which r is used to compute this?
Remember, I'm just a student at this, so don't get too technical in the response, and sorry for any typos.
Thanks!
 
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In my experience, both, r, theta are given as functions.
 
I'm trying to figure this out on my own. Perhaps no one understands what I'm asking. I'm asking if the metric tensor I listed above is valid to use in the dot product of two different vectors. Because the basis vectors are different at different points,
\vec{e}_{a'}=\Lambda^b{}_{a'}\vec{e}_{b}
where
\Lambda^b{}_{a'}=\begin{pmatrix}cos{Θ}&sin{Θ}\\-rsin{Θ}&rcos{Θ}\end{pmatrix}
So, if there are different basis vectors for different points, you can't use the same metric tensor as you would to say, transform a polar vector to a polar covector. Is this correct?
 
The metric ##g## is a tensor field of type (2,0), so it associates a tensor ##g_{\vec r}## of type (2,0) with each ##\vec r\in\mathbb R^2##. This ##g_{\vec r}## is an inner product on ##T_{\vec r}\mathbb R^2##, the tangent space of ##\mathbb R^2## at ##\vec r##. You have determined the components (in the polar coordinate system) of ##g_{\vec r}## for an arbitrary ##\vec r##. Your r is the absolute value of this ##\vec r##.

If you want a mental image, imagine a second copy of ##\mathbb R^2## with its (0,0) point attached to the point ##\vec r##. The A and B that you feed into ##g_{\vec r}## are vectors in that space, so if you visualize them as arrows, those arrows should start at ##\vec r##.
 
Last edited:
Ok, thanks. It's becoming much clearer to me now.
 
You can calculate the metric like this g_{ij} = (\partial_{i}, \partial_{j}) for your parametrization i.e. for cylindrical coordinates. Then if you want to convert a vector in this coordinate system from a contravariant form into a covariant form you have to contract it with this metric tensor like A_{i}=g_{ij}A^{j}, the solution to this system of equations is your covariant vector in cylindrical coordinates. I'm not sure this helps...
 

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