Conservation of Kenetic Energy: Rotational Style

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of kinetic energy in rotational systems, particularly how to apply similar principles used in linear collisions to rotational dynamics. Participants explore the relationships between mass, velocity, momentum, and kinetic energy in both linear and rotational contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a formula for linear collisions involving conservation of momentum and kinetic energy and seeks an analogous formula for rotational collisions.
  • Another participant introduces the concepts of angular momentum (L) and kinetic energy (KE) in rotational dynamics, stating L = I*w and KE = 0.5*I*w^2, where I is the moment of inertia and w is the angular frequency.
  • It is noted that in rotational systems, conservation of momentum should be replaced with conservation of angular momentum, while conservation of energy remains applicable, possibly requiring a potential term in certain situations.
  • Angular momentum is described as L = mV x R, with a simplification for circular motion leading to L = mVR, emphasizing the vector nature of angular momentum and the use of the right-hand rule for direction.
  • One participant corrects a previous statement regarding angular momentum, affirming that it can also be expressed as L = r cross p, where p is linear momentum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to adapt conservation principles from linear to rotational dynamics, but there are nuances in the definitions and applications of angular momentum and kinetic energy that remain under discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention the need for potential terms in energy conservation depending on the situation, indicating that assumptions about the system's constraints may affect the applicability of the discussed principles.

_Nate_
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For my physics engine, I have a pretty simple formula to deal with collisions.

Essentially, in a collision, both Momentum and Kinetic Energy have to be conserved. Thus, m1v1 + m2v2 = m1u1 + m2u2 and m1v1^2 + m2v2^2 = m1u1^2 + m2u2^2, and, given m1, m2, v1, and v2, we can solve for u1 and u2 (final velocities of each object) like this:

u1 = (m1-m2)/(m1+m2)v1 + (m2+m2)/(m1+m2)v2
u2 = (m1+m1)/(m1+m2)v1 + (m2-m1)/(m1+m2)v2

And this all works well and good (I think)

However, I am having trouble doing the same thing for rotation: what's the equivalent formula for rotation? Are there rotational equivalents for mass, velocity, momentum, and kinetic energy, and how can I use a formula similar to the one above to, given rotational momentum, calculate rotational velocities after a collision?
 
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p=I*w and KE=.5*I*w^2
where I is the moment of intertia and w is the angular frequency. p should be replaced with L to show that it is angular momentum.

L=m*(r cross v). the moment of inertia is the intergral of the distance (from the axis of rotation) squared over the entire mass
 
Last edited:
in a rotational system you have to replace conservation of momentum with conservation of angular momentum, but conservation of energy still works (you might have to add a potential term, depending on the situation).
Angular momentum L = mV x R (mass times velocity cross radius), if its circular motion then the cross product turns into simple multiplication L = mVR; keep in mind that the cross product gives you a ang mom vector perpendicular to the velocity and radius (use the right hand rule to get the sign correct + or -)
 
i'm pretty sure its r cross v. point your hand away from the center and curl your fingers couterclockwise for an up moment and clockwise for a down moment.

nate, also notice that angular momentum can be written L=r cross p
 
totally, sorry for the mistake. (also note that RxP = - PxR , which often leads to terms canceling in many-body systems)
 

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