Constant thickness lens varying refractive index

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving a constant thickness lens with a varying refractive index. Participants are exploring how the thickness of the lens affects the behavior of light rays passing through it, particularly in relation to focal points and wavefronts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the initial approach of visualizing light rays and the challenges in relating thickness to focal length. Some suggest focusing on wavefronts instead of rays, while others express confusion about the implications of wavefronts and time delays. There are attempts to derive relationships involving refractive index and thickness, as well as discussions about the nature of the lens and its effects on light.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the relationship between time delays, refractive index, and the geometry of the lens. Some participants have provided guidance on considering ray optics and the implications of a graded-index lens, while others are verifying mathematical derivations related to the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating concepts such as wavefronts, time delays, and the behavior of rays at different distances from the lens axis. There is mention of the complexity introduced by the lens's thickness and varying refractive index, as well as the distinction between positive and negative lenses.

timetraveller123
Messages
620
Reaction score
45

Homework Statement


upload_2017-10-1_19-51-2.png


Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


my initial approach was to just imagine the light rays leaving the focal point and emerging parrallel but then the result had no dependence on thickness how to tackle this problem how does the thickness even factor in
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Focus on wavefronts, not rays.
Consider a plane wavefront entering the lens. The time delay while passing through the lens should convert the plane wavefront to a spherical wavefront. What time delay( radius) is needed. What RI will give that delay?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: timetraveller123
i am really not getting something if by looking at it as wavefronts if the wavefront is normal to the lens why would it refract
and would a time delay make it into spherical wavefront sorry i have not really learned spherical wavefronts before
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: timetraveller123
ok now i have a better understanding of what will happen but i am not really able to relate the time delay to the focal length any help on that
 
Rays that pass through the lens far from the axis have further to travel to the focus than rays nearer the axis. Assume the lens is very thin, work out the difference in distance and so the time delay required at different radii from the axis for all rays to arrive at the focus at the same time.

You know that the RI, η = c / ν, so you can work out the thickness of glass with a particular RI needed to delay the axial rays more than the outer rays.

You can then work out the RI distribution needed for a flat plate to get the same time delay distribution.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: timetraveller123
I would play with ray optics.
Remember this is a thick lens, not a thin one.
What kind of lens (convergent or divergent) can you make from the stated process?
Then work the geometry with the given r, d and F.
Ray optics give you a better picture of what is going on.
EDIT - see my later post. I don't think this is a lens at all.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: timetraveller123
Baluncore said:
Rays that pass through the lens far from the axis have further to travel to the focus than rays nearer the axis. Assume the lens is very thin, work out the difference in distance and so the time delay required at different radii from the axis for all rays to arrive at the focus at the same time.

You know that the RI, η = c / ν, so you can work out the thickness of glass with a particular RI needed to delay the axial rays more than the outer rays.

You can then work out the RI distribution needed for a flat plate to get the same time delay distribution.
ok i am getting
##
d_{extra} = \sqrt{F^2 + r^2} - F \\
t_{difference} = \frac{dn_0 - dn_r}{c}\\
hence ,\\
n_r = n_0 - \frac{\sqrt{F^2 + r^2} - F}{d}
##
is this correct
 
vishnu 73 said:
ok i am getting
##
d_{extra} = \sqrt{F^2 + r^2} - F \\
t_{difference} = \frac{dn_0 - dn_r}{c}\\
hence ,\\
n_r = n_0 - \frac{\sqrt{F^2 + r^2} - F}{d}
##
is this correct
Looks right to me.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: timetraveller123
  • #10
In a positive lens, parallel rays converge to a focus.
In a negative lens, parallel rays diverge (forming a virtual focus on the object side).
Neither happens with this lens. Parallel rays perpendicular to the lens surface just go thru without bending at all.
Strange lens!
 
Last edited:
  • #11
rude man said:
Parallel rays perpendicular to the lens surface just go thru without bending at all.
Strange lens!
That is where the concept of the wavefront comes in. The sum of all rays constructively form a wavefront, with the spherical curvature required to bring the energy to the focus.

Considering a single one dimensional ray is too simplistic a model for diffraction.
 
  • #12
I forgot about graded-index (GRIN) lenses.

But there is nothing wrong with applying ray optics to the GRIN lens. Outer beams are bent more strongly by the transverse n gradient than ones closer to the lens center, all converging and forming a positive lens, as shown below.

Grin-lens.png


"Geometrical optics does not account for certain optical effects such as diffraction and interference. This simplification is useful in practice; it is an excellent approximation when the wavelength is small compared to the size of structures with which the light interacts." (wikipedia, italics mine).

This is thoroughly covered in http://homepage.tudelft.nl/q1d90/fbweb/diss.pdf

Having been clued in I will try to verify the OP's n(r) derivation. Offhand it looks right.
EDIT: It's right. (It ignores the slight droop in each ray as it passes thru the lens but that is a very reasonable simplification).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: timetraveller123

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K