Constrained mass point subject to elastic force and weight

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a mass point constrained to move on the surface of a sphere, influenced by gravitational and elastic forces. Participants are tasked with deriving the Lagrangian and Hamiltonian of the system, formulating the equations of motion, and qualitatively describing the movement of the mass point.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to establish the kinetic and potential energy expressions using spherical coordinates, while questioning the appropriateness of the coordinate choice at the poles. Other participants inquire about specific terms in the potential energy expression and suggest clarifications on the derivation.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing feedback on the original poster's calculations and raising questions about the potential energy formulation. Some guidance is offered regarding the qualitative description of the mass point's movement, hinting at oscillatory behavior.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of spherical coordinates and the implications of the mass point's constraints, particularly at the poles. There is an emphasis on ensuring the potential energy is correctly defined, with specific attention to the reference point for potential energy.

Ocirne94
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Hi all, is my solution correct? I was rejected because of this...

Homework Statement


Consider a mass point (mass = m) constrained to move on the surface of a sphere (radius = r). The point is subject to its own weight's force and to the elastic force of a spring (elastic constant = k, rest length = 0) which at the other end is fixed to the sphere's north pole.

Write the Lagrangian and the Hamiltonian of the system.
Write the Lagrange's and Hamilton's equations of motion.
Find the constants of motion.
Give a qualitative description of the point's movement

Homework Equations


None given.


The Attempt at a Solution


There are 2 degrees of freedom. I choose spherical coordinates theta and phi [but is this correct? The point can reach the poles, where those coordinates aren't defined anymore].
The kinetic energy is
T = \frac{m}{2}\cdot (r^2 \dot\theta^{2} + r^{2}sin(\theta)^{2}\dot\phi^{2})
The potential energy is
V = \kappa\cdot r^{2} (1-cos\theta) + mgr(1+cos\theta)
The Lagrangian is simply
L = T-V
and, since there isn't any explicit dependence on time, the Hamiltonian is simply
H = T+V, but expressed as a function of the momenta p_\theta and p_\phi. I computed it as p_\theta \cdot \dot\theta + p_\phi \cdot \dot\phi - L

p_\theta = \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot\theta}=mr^2\dot\theta
p_\phi = \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot\phi}=\dot\phi r^{2} sin(\theta)^{2}m

Then Lagrange's equations are only computations (I hope I haven't mistaken the derivatives), and so are the Hamilton's.

p_\phi is a constant of motion; the total energy (H or E) is, too. There aren't other constants of motion.

Then I have drawn the chart of V and I have used it to trace a qualitative phase portrait, and I have made basic observations on equilibrium points (one, unstable, when the point is at the south pole; one, stable, when it is at the north pole; and a circumference (a parallel) depending on the mass and the elastic constant.

And now?

Thank you in advance
Ocirne
 
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Ocirne94 said:
The potential energy is
V = \kappa\cdot r^{2} (1-cos\theta) + mgr(1+cos\theta)
How do you get (1-cos(θ))? And shouldn't there be a factor 1/2 on that term?
 
I get it from geometry: the spring's square length is

r^2(1-cos\theta)^{2} + (sin\theta^{2})

which becomes

r^2 + r^2cos\theta^2-2r^2cos\theta+r^2sin\theta^2

the 2 gets simplified with the 1/2 of the elastic potential formula.
This (I forgot to say) setting potential=0 at the south pole of the sphere.
 
Last edited:
Ocirne94 said:
I get it from geometry: the spring's square length is

r^2(1-cos\theta)^{2} + (sin\theta^{2})
Ah yes, of course.
Everything else looks reasonable to me. Maybe more is wanted on the qualitative description. In general, it will oscillate above and below a latitude corresponding to a stable horizontal orbit, yes? Might it be SHM, in terms of a suitable function of time?
 

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