Constraints the elements of the 3D-rotation matrix must satisfy

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the constraints that the elements of a three-dimensional rotation matrix must satisfy to preserve the length of a vector A, as presented in a problem from "Introduction to Electrodynamics" by David J. Griffiths. Participants are exploring the properties of rotation matrices in the context of linear algebra and vector transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the equality of vector lengths before and after transformation, leading to the formulation of equations involving summation notation. Some express uncertainty about how to manipulate these equations and the implications of Einstein's summation convention. Others suggest testing specific vectors to derive properties of the rotation matrix.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing guidance on using specific vector examples to explore the properties of the rotation matrix. There is acknowledgment of the need for clarity in summation notation and the implications of the matrix's orthogonality, but no consensus has been reached on a complete solution.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of a homework problem, which may limit the information they can use or the methods they can apply. There is a focus on understanding the mathematical framework rather than deriving a final answer.

ELB27
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Homework Statement


Taken from "Introduction to Electrodynamics" by David J. Griffiths p.12 problem 1.8 (b):
What constraints must the elements R_{ij} of the three-dimensional rotation matrix satisfy, in order to preserve the length of vector A (for all vectors A)?


Homework Equations


The 3D rotation matrix around an arbitrary axis:
<br /> \begin{pmatrix}<br /> \bar{A_x}\\<br /> \bar{A_y}\\<br /> \bar{A_z}\\<br /> \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix}<br /> R_{xx} &amp; R_{xy} &amp; R_{xz}\\<br /> R_{yx} &amp; R_{yy} &amp; R_{yz}\\<br /> R_{zx} &amp; R_{zy} &amp; R_{zz}\\<br /> \end{pmatrix} \begin{pmatrix}<br /> A_x\\<br /> A_y\\<br /> A_z\\<br /> \end{pmatrix}<br />
Thus,
\bar{A_i} = \sum_{j=1}^3 R_{ij}A_j
where the index 1 stands for x, 2 for y and 3 for z.

The Attempt at a Solution


Since the length of the vector before and after transformation must be equal:
\sum_{i=1}^3 (\bar{A_i})^2 = \sum_{i=1}^3 (A_i)^2
\sum_{i=1}^3 (\bar{A_i})^2 = \sum_{i=1}^3 (\bar{A_i})(\bar{A_i}) = \sum_{i=1}^3 \left( \sum_{j=1}^3 R_{ij}A_j \right) \left( \sum_{k=1}^3 R_{ik}A_k \right) = \sum_{i=1}^3 (A_i)^2
The one before the last equality I obtain from substituting the above equation for \bar{A_i} .
I'm not sure how to proceed from here. I guess that I lack understanding of the summation notation. I tried looking it up but I still can't understand how to continue.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!
 
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ELB27 said:

Homework Statement


Taken from "Introduction to Electrodynamics" by David J. Griffiths p.12 problem 1.8 (b):
What constraints must the elements R_{ij} of the three-dimensional rotation matrix satisfy, in order to preserve the length of vector A (for all vectors A)?


Homework Equations


The 3D rotation matrix around an arbitrary axis:
<br /> \begin{pmatrix}<br /> \bar{A_x}\\<br /> \bar{A_y}\\<br /> \bar{A_z}\\<br /> \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix}<br /> R_{xx} &amp; R_{xy} &amp; R_{xz}\\<br /> R_{yx} &amp; R_{yy} &amp; R_{yz}\\<br /> R_{zx} &amp; R_{zy} &amp; R_{zz}\\<br /> \end{pmatrix} \begin{pmatrix}<br /> A_x\\<br /> A_y\\<br /> A_z\\<br /> \end{pmatrix}<br />
Thus,
\bar{A_i} = \sum_{j=1}^3 R_{ij}A_j
where the index 1 stands for x, 2 for y and 3 for z.

The Attempt at a Solution


Since the length of the vector before and after transformation must be equal:
\sum_{i=1}^3 (\bar{A_i})^2 = \sum_{i=1}^3 (A_i)^2
\sum_{i=1}^3 (\bar{A_i})^2 = \sum_{i=1}^3 (\bar{A_i})(\bar{A_i}) = \sum_{i=1}^3 \left( \sum_{j=1}^3 R_{ij}A_j \right) \left( \sum_{k=1}^3 R_{ik}A_k \right) = \sum_{i=1}^3 (A_i)^2
The one before the last equality I obtain from substituting the above equation for \bar{A_i} .
I'm not sure how to proceed from here. I guess that I lack understanding of the summation notation. I tried looking it up but I still can't understand how to continue.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Google "orthogonal matrix"
 
ELB27 said:

The Attempt at a Solution


Since the length of the vector before and after transformation must be equal:
\sum_{i=1}^3 (\bar{A_i})^2 = \sum_{i=1}^3 (A_i)^2
\sum_{i=1}^3 (\bar{A_i})^2 = \sum_{i=1}^3 (\bar{A_i})(\bar{A_i}) = \sum_{i=1}^3 \left( \sum_{j=1}^3 R_{ij}A_j \right) \left( \sum_{k=1}^3 R_{ik}A_k \right) = \sum_{i=1}^3 (A_i)^2
The one before the last equality I obtain from substituting the above equation for \bar{A_i} .
I'm not sure how to proceed from here. I guess that I lack understanding of the summation notation. I tried looking it up but I still can't understand how to continue.
First thing you should do is learn Einstein's summation convention (Einstein's greatest contribution to physics): repeated indices imply summation. It'll save you a lot of tedious writing. Using this convention, you have
$$\bar{A}_i \bar{A}_i = (R_{ij}A_j)(R_{ik}A_k).$$ No annoying sigmas to keep writing.

The relationship has to hold for all vectors, so try using ##A = (1, 0, 0)##, for example, to show that the first column of ##R## has to be a unit vector. For other choices of ##A##, you can show that different columns are orthogonal to each other.
 
Ray Vickson said:
Google "orthogonal matrix"

Thanks, I didn't know about these matrices!

vela said:
First thing you should do is learn Einstein's summation convention (Einstein's greatest contribution to physics): repeated indices imply summation. It'll save you a lot of tedious writing. Using this convention, you have
$$\bar{A}_i \bar{A}_i = (R_{ij}A_j)(R_{ik}A_k).$$ No annoying sigmas to keep writing.

The relationship has to hold for all vectors, so try using ##A = (1, 0, 0)##, for example, to show that the first column of ##R## has to be a unit vector. For other choices of ##A##, you can show that different columns are orthogonal to each other.

Thank you! So if I understand correctly, I just pick 2 convenient vectors like ##\vec{A} = <1,0,0>## and ##\vec{B} = <1,1,0>## and generalize the results I get for all choices? Am I allowed to do it without proving these relations in general?

EDIT: After some more readings I think I finally get it. Thanks again.
 
Last edited:

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