Contemporary views of God invalid.

[loseyourname]

why don't you also create the heart attack?? why do we relinquish our powers to a god or biology or chemistry or ? are we affraid to accept responsibility for our pain as well as our joys?? is it easier to blame our parent for our genetic qualities. hell, at six-five i can't jump and rebound. do i blame my parents? for me, it makes more sense that i chose this miserable white man's disease. if i were young again, i'd work on technique, etc and maybe i'da been a better playa.

hey, i ain't perfect, but it is a damn sight better knowing that i made the me that I am today and not some god or biological or physical event(s).

eat all the bacon you want. bear in mind, if you believe it causes heart attacks you increase your chances for an attack. i don't believe it does, so i'll eat more becaon and enjoy it more. actually, i really don't care. got to die sometime, someway, so eating bacon ain't a bad form of sideways.

love&peace,
olde drunk

I honestly doubt that my cousin chose to be born with spinal meningitis because he only wanted to live for two weeks.

 

[Nicomachus]

Right, I don't think olde drunk is living in reality. Simply because you don't think that a diet of bacon won't lead to a heart attack doesn't mean it won't. Come back to Earth whenever you get bored with relativism.
*Nico

 

[olde drunk]

How am I being one-dimensional?

Believe me, there are plenty of ugly and unfriendly things in my sub-concious. They have nothing to do with the discussion at hand though.
Njorl

Njordl: I see you viewing the world as only existing within what you can physically see and/or measure. you experience chaos because you believe it is beyond your control.

i submit, that if you access the total you (conscious, sub-conscious, spiritual and cosmic, plus whatever else we are) you might find that the experienced world is not out of your control, but rather respoding to your view that it is out of control.

all of what we are is reflected back to us by the universe. i believe that i control my reality with the assistance of the universal consciousness(es). i project my beliefs and expectations onto my reality and they are reflected back as experience.

i do not believe the subconsciousis ugly or unfriendly, it is a part of you and repressing that part of you may prove to be unhealthy. better to embrace and deal with all the supposed dark corners of the psyche. they aren't bad. when exposed to the light of examination they will give you better understanding of yourself and might offer insight for handling the chaos.

what have you got to lose? experiment! try looking at how you created your past experiences. accept resposibility for your birth, etc and see what you find. it don't cost nuttin.

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[Nicomachus]

Njordl: I see you viewing the world as only existing within what you can physically see and/or measure. you experience chaos because you believe it is beyond your control.

i submit, that if you access the total you (conscious, sub-conscious, spiritual and cosmic, plus whatever else we are) you might find that the experienced world is not out of your control, but rather respoding to your view that it is out of control.

all of what we are is reflected back to us by the universe. i believe that i control my reality with the assistance of the universal consciousness(es). i project my beliefs and expectations onto my reality and they are reflected back as experience.

i do not believe the subconsciousis ugly or unfriendly, it is a part of you and repressing that part of you may prove to be unhealthy. better to embrace and deal with all the supposed dark corners of the psyche. they aren't bad. when exposed to the light of examination they will give you better understanding of yourself and might offer insight for handling the chaos.

what have you got to lose? experiment! try looking at how you created your past experiences. accept resposibility for your birth, etc and see what you find. it don't cost nuttin.

love&peace,
olde drunk

Justification? Or are we just using naked assertions and "bad poetry"?
*Nico

 

[olde drunk]

my personal experiences!

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[Njorl]

Njordl: I see you viewing the world as only existing within what you can physically see and/or measure. you experience chaos because you believe it is beyond your control.

i submit, that if you access the total you (conscious, sub-conscious, spiritual and cosmic, plus whatever else we are) you might find that the experienced world is not out of your control, but rather respoding to your view that it is out of control.

all of what we are is reflected back to us by the universe. i believe that i control my reality with the assistance of the universal consciousness(es). i project my beliefs and expectations onto my reality and they are reflected back as experience.

i do not believe the subconsciousis ugly or unfriendly, it is a part of you and repressing that part of you may prove to be unhealthy. better to embrace and deal with all the supposed dark corners of the psyche. they aren't bad. when exposed to the light of examination they will give you better understanding of yourself and might offer insight for handling the chaos.

what have you got to lose? experiment! try looking at how you created your past experiences. accept resposibility for your birth, etc and see what you find. it don't cost nuttin.

love&peace,
olde drunk

On the contrary, I lived that way for thirty years. It made me very unhappy. I found it liberating when the truth of the chaos of existence dawned upon me.

As for what's in my subconcious, I think I am in a better position to know than you. There are things there that are only redeeming as a reservoir to be drawn upon in dire need. I do not say they are evil or wrong, just ugly and unfriendly. To dispute this is to dispute the definitions of words, not the existence of those aspects. I never said my subconciousness was ugly or unfriendly in its entirety, far from it. It is mostly comprised of the casual virtues that benefit any society. Regardless, I did not choose this subconcious. If I am capable of manipulating it, it is because of genetically inherited intellect, education and societal experience.

Njorl

 

[Nicomachus]

Personal experiences? Well olde drunk maybe if you posted these experiences for all to examine we may be able to take your position more seriously but until then it is simply a set of unjustified assertions.
*Nico

 

[olde drunk]

Personal experiences? Well olde drunk maybe if you posted these experiences for all to examine we may be able to take your position more seriously but until then it is simply a set of unjustified assertions.
*Nico

must you be so combative? I'm not sure i can address these issues in the academic fashion you appear to require. i am not an academician. I have had philosophy and metaphysics as a hobby since the mid sixties. ah yes, the mystical age.

it was my experience that most philosophies were presented to us by our religious leaders. these teachings basically were biased in that they wanted to be the athority. basically, do not think for yourself because you do not have the tools or education or insight to understand the knowledge of the masters.

unfortunately, for me, this lead to confusion because of all the contradictions that needed to be accepted on faith.

you like lables so i guess i am a pluarlist that embraces pantheism. once i started to work toward unifying self, my personal experience with creating a reality that i wanted began to emerge. being a heretic was an experiment that proved worthwhile because i was able to see how hollow all the arguments for a 'god' or a 'saviour' or a heaven and hell, were.

crossing that line freed me to explore all aspects of self. with that confidence i can look at experience and say that there is no right, wrong, good or bad. there is only experience. by accepting responsibility for the negative as well as the positive i am able to see what is learned by any event.

within this thread, i believe that there is no god, in traditional terms. we are co-creators of our reality. this occurs on many, many levels. yes, back in the 70's i had many psychic experiences that i ultimately shut down. i was too busy trying to establish a career and a family.

i did use my insight, however, to assit my work. truth for me is always changing. afterall the universe continues to expand (not the physical, but the Universe or multiverse(s). as a result, i believe that we will believe in a god at any moment that satisfies our personal need at that moment; including atheism.

i have seen how my beliefs and not god create my experience. again, this happens on many levels. by being in touch with the many aspects of self, i feel a better connectedness with the universe and have a better understanding of what i am doing and what is happening. for me, it is, and has been very liberating.

i wasn't telling Njorl that he was wrong, rather that it has been my experience that a better knowledge of self provides more information for understanding why events happen. he will do as he sees fit and that is how it should be. to me, the subconsciousis like a movie director and my conscious self the actor. the subconsciousdecides the scene and action, the conscious how i will respond to the event. together, i have an experience that is value fulfilling within our journey of becoming.

needless to say i have also witnessed this belief driven reality by others. the anxious friend that worried so much about cancer that he suffered 2 different bouts with it. we can 'will' being healthy, but this runs out of gas as our energy can not be sustained. by believing that i am and will be healthy and relaxing, i give myself a positive expectation of reality.

it is magical, but not fully understood. should i have repressed fears of any kind, i might bring on poor consequences in any aspect of my life. the trick, for me, is to see these inconsistencies and deal with them so that i have undiminished energy to create the reality that i want.

i ramble, perhaps you can ask more specific questions. oh yeah, i also became a pacifist during this exploration. most 'gods' say that life is precious and yet, the religions based on these gods, always fight just wars. now there's an oximoron - just war!

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[Pergatory]

Regardless, I did not choose this subconcious. If I am capable of manipulating it, it is because of genetically inherited intellect, education and societal experience.

On the contrary, you remake your subconscious every day! Every time you smack your head against the desk for doing something stupid, you are creating your subconscious. Every time you feel joy from biting into a bar of chocolate, you are creating your subconscious. Your subconscious is the result of what your true self believes is good or bad, and it cannot be lied to. If you are constantly doing things you believe you shouldn't do, your subconscious will be pessimistic and depressed. If you are constantly doing things that you believe are the right things to do, your subconscious will be motivating and energetic. It's mindstate, and the fact that you don't think you can change it enforces your inability to change it.

The nice thing is, once you realize this fact, and understand it to the point of truly believing in it, you can break the cycle and alter your state of mind.

 

[cappuccino]

I think we should take into account that our mind is incapable to determine God, too many undetermined variables. Don't u all think it is too silly if the creator is comparable with his creatures?

 

[Nicomachus]

I think we should take into account that our mind is incapable to determine God, too many undetermined variables. Don't u all think it is too silly if the creator is comparable with his creatures?

All you've said is that the god-concept is meaningless. I agree, but I wonder why you continued?
*Nico