Control System Design Exam Prep: Analytical Solutions & MATLAB

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around preparing for a control system design exam, specifically focusing on analytical solutions and the use of MATLAB for analyzing system responses. Participants explore methods to derive phase lead parameters and gain K for a control system, while addressing the challenge of not having MATLAB available during the exam.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Dan expresses difficulty in applying analytical equations for phase margin, damping ratio, percentage overshoot, and peak time, which were derived for a standard second order system, to a specific exam problem.
  • One participant suggests calculating the positions of the dominant poles of the closed loop system and open loop system, indicating a relationship involving angles and poles.
  • Dan shares a closed loop transfer function he derived and proposes specific values for parameters a, b, and K, indicating that these values yield the desired transient response when checked in MATLAB.
  • Another participant points out that Dan may have omitted the constant 'a' in his transfer function and asks for clarification on whether it was considered in his calculations.
  • Dan responds by explaining his reasoning for removing 'a' based on factoring, and the other participant confirms that this understanding is correct.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple viewpoints regarding the approach to solving the problem, with some participants providing suggestions and clarifications while others express uncertainty about specific calculations. There is no clear consensus on the best method to check if the specifications have been met.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on specific assumptions about the system dynamics and the relationships between parameters, which may not be universally applicable. The discussion also highlights the dependency on the definitions of terms and the context of the equations used.

danago
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I am studying for an exam coming up and came across a question that i am having a little trouble with.

[PLAIN]http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/825/screenshot20101112at110.png

I think i could do this in MATLAB, however i will obviously not have MATLAB in this exam. I have a set of equations that relate phase margin, damping ratio, percentage overshoot and peak time to each other analytically, however these were derived for a standard second order system. My initial thought was to use these equations to obtain a first approximation for the phase lead parameters and the gain K, followed by any necessary adjustments, however i am not sure how i would check if the specifications have been met (as requested in part b).

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated :smile:

Thanks,
Dan.
 
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danago said:
I am studying for an exam coming up and came across a question that i am having a little trouble with.

[PLAIN]http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/825/screenshot20101112at110.png

I think i could do this in MATLAB, however i will obviously not have MATLAB in this exam. I have a set of equations that relate phase margin, damping ratio, percentage overshoot and peak time to each other analytically, however these were derived for a standard second order system. My initial thought was to use these equations to obtain a first approximation for the phase lead parameters and the gain K, followed by any necessary adjustments, however i am not sure how i would check if the specifications have been met (as requested in part b).

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated :smile:

Thanks,
Dan.

From your equations, you can calculate the positions of the dominant poles of your system (the ones you calculated for a second order system).
You know that the sum of the angle of one of the poles of your closed loop system (CLS) to the poles of the open loop system (OLS) minus the sum of the angles to the zeros of the OLS, should be an odd multiple of 180 degrees.
There is more unknowns than equations, so you can choose the value of one unknown. For example, use the zero of C(s) to cancel the pole s = 0.1 of G(s).
Now you can determine the pole of C(s).
The gain K times b/a is the product of the distances of the chosen pole of the CLS to all of the poles of the OLS, divide by the distance to the zero of the OLS.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for the reply CEL.

I am not completely sure what you mean when you say to calculate the position of the dominant poles.

Anyway, your statement "For example, use the zero of C(s) to cancel the pole s = 0.1 of G(s)." helped me i think. The closed loop transfer function i obtained was:

<br /> \frac{{Kb(s + a)}}{{as(10s + 1)(s + b) + Kb(s + a)}}<br />

If i choose a=0.1 then the TF becomes:

<br /> \frac{{Kb}}{{s(s + b) + Kb}}<br />

Which is a second order system. I then found that if b=K=0.7255 then the system would have the desired transient response (i checked in MATLAB).

Is this along the lines of what you were suggesting?
 
danago said:
Thanks for the reply CEL.

I am not completely sure what you mean when you say to calculate the position of the dominant poles.

Anyway, your statement "For example, use the zero of C(s) to cancel the pole s = 0.1 of G(s)." helped me i think. The closed loop transfer function i obtained was:

<br /> \frac{{Kb(s + a)}}{{as(10s + 1)(s + b) + Kb(s + a)}}<br />

If i choose a=0.1 then the TF becomes:

<br /> \frac{{Kb}}{{s(s + b) + Kb}}<br />

Which is a second order system. I then found that if b=K=0.7255 then the system would have the desired transient response (i checked in MATLAB).

Is this along the lines of what you were suggesting?

Yes!
 
Alright, thank you very much! :smile:
 
danago said:
Alright, thank you very much! :smile:

You have dropped the constant a in the formula you posted. Have tou taken it in consideration in your calculations?
 
CEL said:
You have dropped the constant a in the formula you posted. Have tou taken it in consideration in your calculations?

Do you mean in the denominator of this one?

<br /> <br /> \frac{{Kb}}{{s(s + b) + Kb}}<br /> <br />

If so, when i took out the factor of 10 from the brackets i had 0.1*10=1, which is why the 'a' was removed. Is this what you mean?
 
danago said:
Do you mean in the denominator of this one?

<br /> <br /> \frac{{Kb}}{{s(s + b) + Kb}}<br /> <br />

If so, when i took out the factor of 10 from the brackets i had 0.1*10=1, which is why the 'a' was removed. Is this what you mean?

You're right!
 
Ok, thanks again :smile:
 

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