Convergence and divergence of series and sequences

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the convergence and divergence of series and sequences, exploring the implications of convergence criteria, counterexamples, and the applicability of various convergence tests. Participants examine specific series, such as the harmonic series, and discuss the relationship between the convergence of sequences and their corresponding series.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that if a series {a_n} converges, then the sequence {a_n} converges to 0, but the converse does not hold, as illustrated by the harmonic series.
  • There is a discussion about whether a sequence converging to 0 guarantees the convergence of its series, with examples provided to show that this is not necessarily true.
  • Participants mention the integral test as a potentially more general approach for establishing convergence or divergence of series, while others challenge this notion, stating that no single perfect test exists.
  • Counterexamples are discussed as a means to demonstrate the falsity of certain propositions regarding convergence.
  • Some participants express confusion about the relationship between series and functions, questioning the utility of renaming summation indices.
  • There is a mention of Godel's theorem in the context of undecidable propositions in mathematics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the basic principles of convergence and divergence but express differing views on the applicability and sufficiency of various convergence tests. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the existence of a definitive test for convergence.

Contextual Notes

Some statements reflect limitations in understanding the relationship between sequences and series, and there is an acknowledgment of the complexity involved in proving convergence or divergence. The discussion also highlights the potential for confusion when discussing mathematical concepts without clear definitions.

chwala
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TL;DR
I am going through the notes- refreshing. Would like to share my insight and probably clear some doubts highlighted in purple below.
Theorem
1. If a series ##{a_n}## converges, then the sequence ##{a_n}## converges to ##0##.
Now, the contra does not apply, and my question is why? i.e if the the sequence ##{a_n}## converges to ##0## then the series may or may not converge correct? and if it does not converge to ##0## then it diverges i.e for e.g ## \sum_{n=1}^\infty \dfrac{1}{2n}##

##\lim_{n→∞} \dfrac{1}{2n}=0## but the series diverges.

Secondly, in establishing convergence of series- we can look at a series on the context of a function i.e for e.g we can look at

## {a_n}=\sum_{n=1}^\infty \dfrac{1}{2n}## as ##f(x) = \sum_{x=1}^\infty \dfrac{1}{2x}##.

Thirdly, it seems to me that the the integral test is the more general approach to use in establishing on whether or not a series converges or diverges? other than the other available tests i.e ratio, comparison, p-test. Correct?
 
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Consider the sequence 1/1, 1/2, 1/3... it converges to zero

but the series 1/1+1/2+1/3+1/4... does not

1/1+1/2+1/3+1/4+1/5+1/6+1/7+1/8+...

since it is bigger than this series where we replace some terms with power of two terms that are smaller ie 1/3 -> 1/4 and 1/5, 1/6, 1/7 are replaced by 1/8... then group terms to get a series of 1+1+1...

1/1+(1/2+1/4+1/4)+(1/8+1/8+1/8+1/8+1/16+1/16+...) + ...
1+. (1) + (1) + ...

more on the harmonic series is here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_series_(mathematics)
 
jedishrfu said:
Consider the sequence 1/1, 1/2, 1/3... it converges to zero

but the series 1/1+1/2+1/3+1/4... does not

1/1+1/2+1/3+1/4+1/5+1/6+1/7+1/8+...

since it is bigger than this series where we replace some terms with power of two terms that are smaller ie 1/3 -> 1/4 and 1/5, 1/6, 1/7 are replaced by 1/8... then group terms to get a series of 1+1+1...

1/1+(1/2+1/4+1/4)+(1/8+1/8+1/8+1/8+1/16+1/16+...) + ...
1+. (1) + (1) + ...

more on the harmonic series is here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_series_(mathematics)
I get you @jedishrfu ...i understand that. My question probably should be why is there not a theorem on that effect.
 
chwala said:
I get you @jedishrfu ...i understand that. My question probably should be why is there not a theorem on that effect.

A counterexample which shows that a proposition is not true is a proof of the theorem that the proposition is false.
 
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There are times in mathematics when we can't explain why, but know there is a counter-example that suffices to shut down the proposition.

There are also cases in systems of mathematics where something is undecidable, as we can't prove or disprove it. (Godel's theorem)
 
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chwala said:
TL;DR Summary: I am going through the notes- refreshing. Would like to share my insight and probably clear some doubts highlighted in purple below.

Theorem
1. If a series ##{a_n}## converges, then the sequence ##{a_n}## converges to ##0##.
Now, the contra does not apply, and my question is why?
See the counterexample of the harmonic series as mentioned by @jedishrfu. Why? Some sequences aren't simply fast enough on their way to zero. Even steps of ##1/n## add up to infinity.

chwala said:
i.e if the the sequence ##{a_n}## converges to ##0## then the series may or may not converge correct?
Yes. See above.
chwala said:
and if it does not converge to ##0## then it diverges i.e for e.g ## \sum_{n=1}^\infty \dfrac{1}{2n}##

##\lim_{n→∞} \dfrac{1}{2n}=0## but the series diverges.
Yes.
chwala said:
Secondly, in establishing convergence of series- we can look at a series on the context of a function i.e for e.g we can look at

## {a_n}=\sum_{n=1}^\infty \dfrac{1}{2n}## as ##f(x) = \sum_{x=1}^\infty \dfrac{1}{2x}##.

That makes no sense. Your function is the same as the series. What did you gain by renaming the summation index except confusion? You could consider the integrals, e.g.
$$
\int_{1}^{N+1}\dfrac{1}{x}\,dx <\sum_{k=1}^{N}\dfrac{1}{k}<1+\int_{1}^{N}\dfrac{1}{x}\,dx
$$
but you must be careful. A summation and an integral are different concepts and you cannot simply replace the symbols.

chwala said:
Thirdly, it seems to me that the the integral test is the more general approach to use in establishing on whether or not a series converges or diverges? other than the other available tests i.e ratio, comparison, p-test. Correct?
See here: https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/series-in-mathematics-from-zeno-to-quantum-theory/
 
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chwala said:
Thirdly, it seems to me that the the integral test is the more general approach to use in establishing on whether or not a series converges or diverges? other than the other available tests i.e ratio, comparison, p-test. Correct?
The integral test is applicable in this case and nothing more. The most perfect or the most general test for convergence or divergence of a series does not exist. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergence_tests)
 
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Gavran said:
The integral test is applicable in this case and nothing more. The most perfect or the most general test for convergence or divergence of a series does not exist. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergence_tests)
If you analyze the proofs of those tests, you will find out that they are all based on the comparison test, sandwiching.
 
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