Convergence of Infinite Series with Decreasing Terms

  • Thread starter Thread starter JG89
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Proof
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving a property of infinite series with positive decreasing terms, specifically that if such a series converges, then the limit of n*a_n as n approaches infinity must equal zero. Participants are analyzing the validity of a proof and exploring the implications of the assumptions made in the argument.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the validity of the original proof, questioning the assumption that n*a_n can be greater than a fixed epsilon for all integers. They suggest clarifying the conditions under which this holds and explore the implications of the series being monotone decreasing.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered guidance on refining the proof, suggesting a clearer structure and emphasizing the importance of the monotonicity condition. There is recognition of the need for a more rigorous approach, with some participants proposing counterexamples to illustrate potential flaws in reasoning.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of the assumption that the series terms are positive and decreasing, and how this affects the convergence properties being discussed. The conversation reflects a mix of attempts to clarify the proof and explore alternative reasoning paths.

JG89
Messages
724
Reaction score
1

Homework Statement



Prove that if the infinite series a_1 + a_2 + ... + a_n, with positive decreasing terms, converges to a value A, then the limit as n approaches infinity of n*a_n = 0

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution



Assume \forall n \in Z^{+} ,\exists \epsilon > 0: n(a_n) \ge \epsilon, where Z+ is the set of all positive integers and of course, epsilon is fixed. Now, if n(a_n) >= epsilon, then a_n >= epsilon/n

If epsilon >= 1, then a_n >= epsilon/n >= 1/n, for all n. But this can't be true because then
a_1 >= 1/1, a_2 >= 1/2, a_3 >= 1/3 and so on, implying that a_1 + a_2 + ... + a_n >= 1/1 + 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/4 + ... = harmonic series, which diverges, and so a_n diverges, but a_n really converges.

Now we consider 0 < epsilon < 1:

There exists a fixed positive number c such that c*epsilon = 1. If n(a_n) >= epsilon, then
cn(a_n) >= c*epsilon = 1, implying that c(a_n) >= 1/n for all positive integers n.

And so, c(a_1) >= 1/1, c(a_2) >= 1/2, c(a_3) >= 1/3 and so on, implying:

c(a_1) + c(a_2) + c(a_3) = c(a_1 + a_2 + ..) >= 1/1 + 1/2 + 1/3 + ... = harmonic series, which diverges, and so the infinite series c(a_1) + c(a_2) + .. must also diverge. However, c(a_1 + a_2 + ...) converges to the value cA, since c is a fixed value.

These two contradictions both lead to the conclusion that there doesn't exist an epsilon such that n(a_n) >= epsilon for all positive integers n, meaning that n(a_n) < epsilon for all positive epsilon and for n large enough, meaning that the limit is 0.

QED

This proof looks fine to me, but the solution seems too simple. What is wrong with the proof?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
it seems that should work. maybe clarify a bit why you can have n*a_n > epsilon. also if you feel like you can put all this into a single step by noticing epsilon is fixed, while sum(1/n) goes unbounded independently of epsilon. you might need to prove that sum(1/n) is unbounded.

if sum(a_n) converges it has a bound M say so that

M>sum(a_n)>epsilon*(sum(1/N) > M for suff large N. contradiction. so you can choose epsilon > M/sum(1/N) for N sufficiently large...[edit: for any N!]
 
It is too simple. You didn't use that the sequence is monotone decreasing, which is an essential assumption. There error starts with "If n(a_n) >= epsilon". You seem to be assuming that is true for all integers. You can't assume that. The correct statement would be that there is an epsilon such that for any N>0, there is an n>N such that n(a_n)>epsilon. That is what n(a_n) does not converge to zero means. The correct proof does look a lot like the proof that the harmonic series diverges. Want to try it again? Here's a counterexample to think about. Define a_i=0 except where i=2^j for some integer j, then a_i=1/i. See? No monotone decreasing, no theorem.
 
Last edited:
Ok, I just looked up the proof of the harmonic series and tried to model this proof after that, trying to get an infinite number of 1/2's...

Assume that there exists an epsilon such that for any N > 0, there exists a positive integer n > N such that n(a_n) > epsilon. Let n1,n2,n3, ... be integers such that n1*2 < n2, 2*n2 < n3, 2*n3 < n4 and so on and for each ni, ni(a_ni) > epsilon.

Then the infinite sum a1 + a2 + a3 + ... + an1 + a(n1 + 1) + ... + an2 + ... can be grouped as follows:

(a1 + a2 + ... + an1) + (a(n+1) + ... + an2) + (a(n2+1) + ... + an3) + ...

For the first group, a1 > a2 > ... > an1 > epsilon/n1 and so a1 + a2 + ... + an1 > n1(an1) = epsilon.

For the second group, a(n1 +1) + a(n1 + 2) + ... + a(n2) > (n2 - n1)a(n2).

Since n2 > 2n1, then n2 - 2n1 > 0 <-> 2n2 - 2n1 > n2 <-> 2(n2 - n1)> n2 <-> n2-n1>n2/2

And so a(n1+1) + ... + a(n2) > (n2-n1)a(n2) > (n2/2)(epsilon/n2) = epsilon/2.

For the third group, a(n2 + 1) + ... + a(n3) > (n3 - n2)a(n3) > (n3/2)(epsilon/n3) = epsilon/2

And so (a1 + a2 + ... + an1) + (a(n1 +1) + ... + an2) + ... > epsilon + epsilon/2 + epsilon/2 + ... = epsilon(1 + 1/2 + 1/2 + 1/2).

The series 1 + 1/2 + 1/2 + ... diverges (this is used to prove the harmonic series diverges), and since epsilon is fixed, epsilon(1 + 1/2 + 1/2 + ...) also diverges, showing that a1 + a2 + a3 + ... diverges, even though it really converges. This is a contradiction and so n*an has a limit of 0.
 
That's it. Congratulations. I haven't read every line of the proof, because I'm lazy, but I see all of the right ideas. If you believe it, I do.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K