Convergence of \psi(x)/x and \pi(x)/Li(x) to 1: How Fast?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the convergence rates of the expressions \(\frac{\psi(x)}{x}\) and \(\frac{\pi(x)}{Li(x)}\) to 1, as suggested by the Prime Number Theorem (PNT). Participants explore how quickly these expressions approach 0 and the implications of this behavior in relation to the Riemann Hypothesis (RH) and error terms associated with the prime number theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the speed at which \(|\frac{\psi(x)}{x}-1|\) and \(|\frac{\pi(x)}{Li(x)}-1|\) tend to 0, specifically questioning whether \(f(x)x^{1/2}\) and \(g(x)x^{1/2}\) approach 0 or infinity.
  • Another participant suggests that the inquiry relates to the Riemann Hypothesis.
  • A different participant provides a known bound for \(\psi(x)\) under the assumption of RH, indicating that \(\psi(x) = x + O\left(x\exp\left(-C\frac{(\log x)^{3/5}}{(\log\log x)^{1/5}} \right)\right)\) for some constant \(C>0\).
  • It is mentioned that \(\psi(x) = x + \Omega(\sqrt{x})\) is known, with a suggestion that a slightly better bound exists involving logarithmic factors.
  • Another participant discusses the limit of \(\frac{\Omega(\sqrt{x})}{\sqrt{x}} = h(x)\) and its behavior as \(x\) approaches infinity, questioning the finiteness of the integral \(\int_{0}^{\infty}dxh(x)\).
  • One participant reiterates the question regarding the convergence of \(f(x)\) and \(g(x)\) and connects it to the RH, proposing that \(|\operatorname{Li}(x)-\pi(x)|\) could be bounded by \(c\sqrt{x} \ln x\) for some constant \(c\).
  • A later reply introduces the concept of a "trace" of an operator and relates it to the differentiation of the Mangoldt formula, suggesting a connection to the original inquiry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints and hypotheses regarding the convergence rates and error terms, with no consensus reached on the specifics of the convergence behavior or the implications of the Riemann Hypothesis.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various mathematical bounds and conjectures, indicating that the discussion is heavily dependent on assumptions related to the Riemann Hypothesis and the definitions of the functions involved. The mathematical steps and implications remain unresolved.

lokofer
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hello..following the PNT we know that

[tex]\frac{\psi(x)}{x}\rightarrow 1[/tex] and

[tex]\frac{\pi(x)}{Li(x)}\rightarrow 1[/tex]

my question is "how fast" do the expressions:

[tex]|\frac{\psi(x)}{x}-1|=|f(x)|[/tex] and

[tex]|\frac{\pi(x)}{Li(x)}-1|=|g(x)|[/tex] tend to 0 ?

in the sense that for example will the expressions...

[tex]f(x)x^{1/2}[/tex] and [tex]g(x)x^{1/2}[/tex] tend to 0 or will they tend to infinite?...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: (to give a clearer explanation)
 
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You're just asking the Riemann hypothesis now.
 
Just about any discussion of the prime number theorem will have something to say about the error term, it shouldn't be hard for you to look this up. Something like:

[tex]\psi(x)=x+O\left(x\exp\left(-C\frac{(\log x)^{3/5}}{(\log\log x)^{1/5}} \right)\right)[/tex]

for a constant C>0 is known. Much better can be had assuming RH of course, or even larger zero free regions (the above bound comes from a zero free region).

In the other direction you have:

[tex]\psi(x)=x+\Omega(\sqrt{x})[/tex]

though slightly better is known by a factor of some logloglog(x) I think, you can look it up to check the number of log's.
 
In that case as "Shmoe" posted it would be to see if the limit:

[tex]\frac{\Omega(\sqrt (x))}{\sqrt(x)}=h(x)[/tex]

tends to 0 for x-->oo, or if the integral [tex]\int_{0}^{\infty}dxh(x)[/tex] is finite.

As far as i know i have seen "graphs" of [tex]\psi(x)-x[/tex] and seems (don't know if there is a well math theorem) that has the function [tex]x^{1/2}[/tex] as and "upper" and "lower" limit...( depending on what sign you take when take the square root of x ) i would be interested in knowing if the integral:

[tex]\int_{c}^{\infty}dx|x^{1/2}(\frac{d\psi}{dx}-1)|^{2}[/tex] exist so it's on an L(c,oo) space... c=oo or c=0..thanks.
 
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lokofer said:
[tex]|\frac{\psi(x)}{x}-1|=|f(x)|[/tex] and

[tex]|\frac{\pi(x)}{Li(x)}-1|=|g(x)|[/tex] tend to 0 ?

in the sense that for example will the expressions...

[tex]f(x)x^{1/2}[/tex] and [tex]g(x)x^{1/2}[/tex] tend to 0 or will they tend to infinite?...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: (to give a clearer explanation)

The RH is equivilent to

[tex]|\operatorname{Li}(x)-\pi(x)|\le c\sqrt x \ln x[/tex] for some constant c. You're asking if

[tex]|\operatorname{Li}(x)-\pi(x)|\le c\operatorname{Li}(x)x^{-1/2}\sim c\sqrt x \ln x[/tex] for some constant c.
 
Last edited:
In fact if we define the "trace" of a certain operator (Hamiltonian ) by:

[tex]Z=Tr[e^{iuH}]=\sum_{n=-\infty}^{\infty}e^{iuE_{n}}[/tex] (1)

differentiating V. Mangodlt formula..

[tex]-\frac{d\psi}{dx}+1-\frac{1}{x^{3}-x}=\sum_{\rho}x^{\rho -1}[/tex]

If we put...[tex]\rho_{n} = 1/2+iE_{n}[/tex] ,multiplying both sides by [tex]\sqrt (x)[/tex] and letting

x=exp(u) the V.Mangoldt formula becomes just a "trace"..
 
Last edited:

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