Cooling of a sphere by radiation

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The problem involves the cooling of a copper sphere by radiation, with the sphere initially at temperature T_0 and surrounded by walls at nearly 0K. Participants are tasked with finding an expression for the time it takes for the sphere's temperature to decrease by a factor of η and calculating this time for specific values.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss various methods to derive the cooling time, including using energy equations and heat capacity. There are attempts to validate formulas and calculations based on physical principles.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing different approaches and results. Some express confusion over the results, particularly regarding the relationship between the sphere's radius and cooling time. There are indications of productive dialogue as participants question each other's reasoning and calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note discrepancies in their results, including unexpectedly long or short cooling times. There are concerns about missing information and assumptions made in the problem setup, such as the values for constants and the implications of the sphere's radius on cooling time.

fluidistic
Gold Member
Messages
3,934
Reaction score
286

Homework Statement



A copper sphere of radius d is put inside walls very close to 0K. The initial temperature of the sphere is [tex]T_0[/tex]. The surface of the sphere is totally black and we assume it loses energy only due to radiation.
1)Find an expression for the time passed till the temperature of the sphere decreases by a factor [tex]\eta[/tex].
2)Calculate explicitly t when [tex]\eta =2[/tex] and [tex]T_0 =300 K[/tex].

2. The attempt at a solution
I've found out http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/cootime.html#c2.
So I searched for all the extra data I haven't been provided in the exercise, namely for the molar mass of copper, its density and the value of all the constants in the formula.
For part 1) I get [tex]t_{\eta}=\frac{mN_Ak_B (\eta ^3 -1)}{8M \sigma \pi d^2 T_0^3}[/tex].
For part 2), I used part 1) and plugged [tex]\eta =2[/tex], [tex]T_0=300[/tex] and I obtained [tex]t=891445d[/tex].
In all my arithmetics, I always used the SI units. So if d=1m, I get a time of [tex]891445 s>10 \text{days}[/tex] which seems to me way too long.
Further, if I double the radius of the sphere, it only double the time of cooling which doesn't seem right to me (I'd expect a 4 times bigger time of cooling), but I'm not 100% sure.
Am I doing something wrong? If not, what answer do you get?
P.S.: I used the density 8940 kg/m^3 and the molar mass M equal to 0.06354kg/mol.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
For what its worth, I tried to derive the formula from scratch using constant heat capacity, and I got 11,6 days with your values.

if I double the radius of the sphere, it only double the time of cooling which doesn't seem right to me

If you double the radius you get eight times the heat content passing through four times the area, so I'd say you should expect it to take twice as long.
 
Filip Larsen said:
For what its worth, I tried to derive the formula from scratch using constant heat capacity, and I got 11,6 days with your values.



If you double the radius you get eight times the heat content passing through four times the area, so I'd say you should expect it to take twice as long.

Thank you very much. Impressive.
 
I just redid this problem now, but instead of taking [itex]E=\frac{3k_BT}{2}[/itex], I took [itex]\Delta E =mc \Delta T[/itex].
I reach a cooling time of [itex]t_f = \frac{mc}{\sigma A} \left ( \frac{1}{T_0}-\frac{1}{T_f} \right )[/itex].
I checked out the units, they are fine. This gives me a time of [itex]2498.8 d[/itex] days which is by far different from my previous answer. Can someone explain me what's wrong?
I used [itex]c=\frac{380J}{kg K}[/itex].
 
Here's my work in details:
[itex]\Delta Q=mc\Delta T=\Delta E \Rightarrow dE=mcdT[/itex].
[itex]\frac{dE}{dt}=P=\varepsilon A\sigma (T_{sphere}-T_{ambient})^4=A\sigma T_{sphere} ^4[/itex].
[itex]\frac{dE}{dt}=\frac{dE}{dT} \cdot \frac{dT}{dt}=mc \frac{dT}{dt}= A \sigma T_{sphere} ^4 \Rightarrow dt= \frac{dTmc}{\sigma A T_{sphere}^4}[/itex].
Now I integrate both sides: [itex]\int _{t_0}^{t_f}=t_f=\int_{T_0}^{T_f} \frac{mcdT}{\sigma A T_{sphere}}=\frac{mc}{\sigma A} \left ( \frac{1}{T_0^3} - \frac{1}{T_f^3} \right )[/itex].
With [itex]A=4 \pi d^2. m=\frac{4\pi d^3}{3} \cdot 8940 \frac{kg}{m^3}=37447.8 kg \frac{d^3}{m^3}. c=\frac{380J}{kgK}[/itex].
[itex]\Rightarrow t_f= \left ( \frac{1}{(300K)^3}- \frac{1}{(150K)^3} \right ) \left ( \frac{37447.8d^3 \cdot 380 J}{m^3 \cdot kg \cdot K} \right ) \left ( \frac{m^2K^4}{4\pi d^2 \cdot 5.67 \times 10 ^{-8}W} \right )=\frac{2.16 \times 10^8s\cdot d}{m}[/itex].
Which is more than 200 times bigger than when I considered the change of internal energy as [itex]\frac{3 k_B dT}{2}[/itex].
 
I've redone it once again, this time I get a way too low cooling time.
In function of [itex]\eta, I get t_f=\frac{d}{3} \cdot \frac{380J}{kg\cdot K}\cdot \frac{1-\eta ^3}{(300K)^3 \sigma}[/itex]. For [itex]\eta =2[/itex], I reach [itex]t_f=-d579.18 s[/itex]. I don't understand why there's a negative time and why the value obtained is so low.
Basically the integral I solved was [itex]t_f =\frac{mc}{A \sigma} \left [ - \frac{1}{T^3} \right ] ^{T_0/\eta }_{T_0}=\frac{mc (1-\eta ^3)}{A \sigma T_0 ^3}[/itex].

If you can solve the problem by considering [itex]\Delta E =mc \Delta T[/itex], and you get around 10 days mutiplied by the radius of the sphere, please let me know how you solved the problem. It seems like I'm going crazy on this one.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
3K
Replies
170
Views
9K
Replies
14
Views
2K
Replies
23
Views
5K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K